# Abdul El-Sayed vs Haley Stevens - Progressives vs Centrists, gloves-off discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2026, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371 "2026-11-03T17:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/81 "2026-11-03T21:48:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Genuine question: do you really think that’s an accurate description of @Spice_Weasel? Or of @DSeid for that matter? Not necessarily, but Happy\_Lendervedder’s point still stands - When you continue to ignore El-Sayed’s multiple condemnation of antisemitism and his support of Jewish constituents, constantly wring your hands about whether he’s apologized enough or condemned enough, I do start to wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/82 "2026-11-03T21:51:53Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Not necessarily, but Happy\_Lendervedder’s point still stands - When you continue to ignore El-Sayed’s multiple condemnation of antisemitism and his support of Jewish constituents, constantly wring your hands about whether he’s apologized enough or condemned enough, I do start to wonder I know that you completely discount anything I have to say because I’ve been pretty outspoken to the point of causing offense. Whatever, that doesn’t really bother me. Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer. But I think it’s quite telling that you dismiss everything that @Spice_Weasel (and before that @DSeid) said with this same broad brush when they have taken _extraordinary_ pains to be careful with their language and to condemn Israel’s actions. This is why I don’t bother with politeness anymore. When someone can spit in Spice\_Weasel’s face like that after the effort she has made to explain herself calmly and politely, I say you can go fuck yourself right up your self righteous asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/83 "2026-11-03T21:55:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I know that you completely discount anything I have to say because I’ve been pretty outspoken to the point of causing offense. Whatever, that doesn’t really bother me. Your boos mean nothing, I’ve seen what makes you cheer. But I think it’s quite telling that you dismiss everything that @Spice_Weasel (and before that @DSeid) said with this same broad brush when they have taken _extraordinary_ pains to be careful with their language and to condemn Israel’s actions. > > This is why I don’t bother with politeness anymore. When someone can spit in Spice\_Weasel’s face like that after the effort she has made to explain herself calmly and politely, I say you can go fuck yourself right up your self righteous asshole. The only one painting with a broad brush here is you. I didn’t bring up Spice\_Weasel nor DSeid. If they felt I was referring to them specifically in my comments they can speak up for themselves - they don’t need you to do it for them. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/84 "2026-11-03T22:02:28Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > The only one painting with a broad brush here is you. I didn’t bring up Spice\_Weasel nor DSeid. I’m sorry but that’s horseshit. @Spice_Weasel said that El Sayed hadn’t done proper outreach; the poster you’re responding to gave some examples of outreach (most of whom Spice\_Weasel had previously addressed, but I don’t expect anyone to read anyone else’s posts before responding anymore 🙄), and you responded to that post by saying that nothing will ever be enough for those who equate every criticism of Israel with antisemitism. If that wasn’t meant to be about Spice\_Weasel, then you’re too illiterate to participate in this discussion. But that isn’t even the case, because when I called you out on it, your answer was that Spice\_Weasel isn’t _necessarily_ one of those people, but you _are_ starting to wonder: > [@Dorjan](#): > > Not necessarily, but Happy\_Lendervedder’s point still stands - When you continue to ignore El-Sayed’s multiple condemnation of antisemitism and his support of Jewish constituents, constantly wring your hands about whether he’s apologized enough or condemned enough, I do start to wonder. So go fuck yourself with your gaslighty backpedaling. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/85 "2026-11-03T22:04:13Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I know that you completely discount anything I have to say because I’ve been pretty outspoken to the point of causing offense. I discount you because you are so excessive in your critiques that i can’t read them and get any sense of what actually happened. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/86 "2026-11-03T22:05:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I discount you because you are so excessive in your critiques that i can’t read them and get any sense of what actually happened By which you mean you’re incapable of believing what is right in front of your eyes about someone who you have decided is an ideological ally. None of what I have said about El Sayed has been excessive. If it sounds excessive, it’s because his actual behavior has been egregious. For example the hurt people hurt people comment. Comparing that situation to the Pulse Nightclub shooting isn’t _excessive_, it’s a 1 to 1 comparison. Both murderers said that they were doing it because they were upset that a terrorist had been killed in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/87 "2026-11-03T22:06:59Z")
Naw, when you jump right to “egregious” without ever bothering to give a calm description of what happened, your posts aren’t helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/88 "2026-11-03T22:08:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Naw, when you jump right to “egregious” without ever bothering to give a calm description of what happened, your posts aren’t helpful I gave a perfectly calm account of what had happened up above. > [@Babale](#): > > He spent four minutes explaining that the shooter was upset because he had relatives who died in Lebanon (he didn’t mention that those relatives were Hezbollah members) and then said that “hurt people hurt people” and asked us to imagine a world where Israel didn’t bomb his Hezbollah relatives and so he didn’t kill a bunch of Jews. Do you want a transcript? That’s literally EXACTLY what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/89 "2026-11-03T22:09:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > None of what I have said about El Sayed has been excessive. If it sounds excessive, it’s because ALL US MOTHERFUCKERS AGREE WITH TUCKER CARLSON? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/90 "2026-11-03T22:09:55Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > ALL US MOTHERFUCKERS AGREE WITH TUCKER CARLSON?. EL SAYED IS ONE OF YOU??? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/91 "2026-11-03T22:13:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > (he didn’t mention that those relatives were Hezbollah members) How many relatives and how many were Hezbollah? 'Cause you’ve only given us one. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/92 "2026-11-03T22:14:20Z")
> [@Gordon\_G](#): > > I wonder if America adds some stupidity-inducing drug to their drinking water. Object to Bibi’s war crimes – approaching outright genocide – and you’ll get lumped with Hitler as a Jew hater. Seriously, USA: WTF is wrong with you? Get your drinking water tested. There are people like that. There are also people who, if you don’t shout “Judaea delenda est!” at every opportunity like Cato the Elder calling for the destruction of Carthage, will accuse you of being a genocidal colonizer. I’ve encountered both groups. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/93 "2026-11-03T22:14:56Z")
You’re calling other posters motherfuckers in all caps, while accusing us of secretly being right-wingers…and then you have the nerve to tone police Dorjan? Fuck off with that noise. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/94 "2026-11-03T22:15:25Z")
When a person starts responding to every post in a thread, often within a minute, I have to wonder if there’s a manic episode happening. Take a breath dude. Go touch some grass. Play with a dog. Get a pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/95 "2026-11-03T22:15:48Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I’m starting this thread as a release valve for a few varieties of arguments that seem prone to taking over P&E threads Thank you so much. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/96 "2026-11-03T22:17:53Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > You’re calling other posters motherfuckers in all caps, while accusing us of secretly being right-wingers… I certainly never accused you of being a rightwinger. It would be nice if only rightwingers agreed with Tucker Carlson about Israel, but unfortunately, this is now a cross-horseshoe issue. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/97 "2026-11-03T22:24:28Z")
I believe that Tucker Carlson consciously hates Jews _per se,_ on a deep level that has nothing to do with Zionism or religion. I do not think that anyone on this board, no matter how critical of Israel, deserves to be tarred with that brush. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/98 "2026-11-03T22:27:32Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > It’ll never be enough for people who equate any support for Palestine as tantamount to praising Hezbollah and any criticism of Israel as antisemitic. See what I mean about the poisoned well? It makes reasoned discussion next to impossible. I couldn’t be more horrified about the genocide in Palestine. I’m equal opportunity horrified when it comes to atrocities. When I say this stuff keeps me up at night, I’m not joking. Right about 11pm I start having intrusive thoughts about the worst things people have done to other people. Neither Palestine nor October 7 are ever far from my mind. It’s not just images but actually imagining what it would be like to be one of those very unlucky people. Likewise, I have elucidated in this very thread my contempt for Islamophobes, and the negative impact I’ve seen on Arab-Americans in the Detroit Metro area. I had an Islamic dorm-mate in college and witnessed the psychological effect of bigotry against her and her family when, in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, she didn’t even feel safe to go to Mosque because of fucking bigots. I worked in a Middle Eastern restaurant run by Palestinians. I eat regularly in Dearborn. My agency is funded by an Arab-American organization and we have partnerships with similar organizations. I don’t claim to be particularly knowledgeable about this community, but I have enough exposure to care a lot about their experiences in our country. I also really care about the Jewish communities I have known. I didn’t have a lot of exposure, okay none. I don’t think I met a single Jew until college. But for my first-year internship as a Master of Social Work, my job was to provide support and assistance to Jewish individuals in a continued care retirement facility. I had a great rapport with the progressive Rabbi there. I learned a lot. Meanwhile my husband was working at an Orthodox Jewish School for his PhD. His mentor invited us over every year for Sukkot. I have a strong partnership with a major Jewish foundation in the area. It’s actually my husband and the writing of his Jewish colleagues that have pushed me to take a closer look at the rise of anti-Semitism on the left. What I’m saying is, people want me to choose, and I don’t want to choose. I feel sympathy toward both communities and there’s a progressive push lately to indicate I should only feel sympathy for one. Is it worse to be Arab American or Jewish right now in America? Seems like both are having a rough go of it, and whatever you feel about the Israel/Palestine clusterfuck, American Jews and American Arabs had fuck-all to do with it. As for El-Sayed, I don’t like weasely politicians. You may be underestimating how much I despise Hasan Piker. If he would kick that fucker to the curb it would go a long way with me. But I recently read an interview where El-Sayed refused to back down on trans rights, showing tremendous backbone with regard to a politically unpopular opinion. So I know this guy can be principled. I want to know why he’s not principled about Piker. It’s driving me apeshit, it really is. If he has done all that work in the Jewish community, great. I’ll take a closer look at what he actually has done. I don’t keep a close enough eye on any of my elected representatives and that’s something that’s got to change moving forward. If we really do have a blue wave for today, we need to be constantly pressuring our representatives to do the job we elected them to do. In my lifetime, the stakes have never been higher. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/99 "2026-11-03T22:30:24Z")
Totally this. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2026, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/100 "2026-11-03T22:32:07Z")
And, for that, he apologized, condemned all forms of antisemitism, celebrated a Jewish holiday with a Jewish family, reached out to various Jewish communities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371.md?page=6)