# Abdul El-Sayed vs Haley Stevens - Progressives vs Centrists, gloves-off discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2026, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371 "2026-11-03T17:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/141 "2026-11-04T00:21:18Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Who woulda guessed that Abdul El-Sayed was Debbie Dingell in disguise! I think Haley really is just bitter. She claimed Abdul disinvited her, and apparently lied. I don’t know what all of their squabbles were about but some of it just sounds petty. And no I am not inclined to give her the benefit of a doubt. That “killing Palestinians” ad sounds like it was in poor taste, in the least. But it speaks to how I sometimes feel my tax dollars are spent. Unless it explicitly mentioned Jews I don’t think I can get too upset about Abdul ignoring that one. If it DID mention Jews, that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/142 "2026-11-04T00:26:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Again, what point do you think you’re making? > [@Babale](#): > > the shooter was upset because he had relative **s** who died in Lebanon (he didn’t mention that those relative **s** were Hezbollah members) Half of them were not Hezbollah members but that didn’t stop you from implying that they all were. Maybe you should be as exact, or slippery, as you expect others to be. Understand, the standard you invoke with regards to the Carlson ad is the standard I’m invoking here. If Carlson endorsed El-Sayed then you accused all of them of being Hezbollah. Words means words. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/143 "2026-11-04T00:29:31Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > But it speaks to how I sometimes feel my tax dollars are spent. And that part of it has been twisted into pure anti-semitism by an idiot in the other thread that doesn’t even have a clue what’s being said by it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/144 "2026-11-04T00:32:49Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If Carlson endorsed El-Sayed Unless I’m missing something, @Babale didn’t make that claim. I asked for clarification and he corrected me. > [@Babale](#): > > Technically if I’m being super charitable the specific clip of Tucker was one where he said he wouldn’t vote for Mike Rogers if there was a gun to his head, so you _could_ argue that it wasn’t exactly Tucker praising El Sayed, but many of the other clips of Republicans _were_ praising him (calling him charismatic, a good speaker, etc) and it was a weird including anyways. Also, I got that idea - that Carlson praised Abdul - from an article in the New York Times. I’m reading all the articles to try to figure this shit out. I have a tendency to hyperfixate. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/145 "2026-11-04T00:35:57Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Unless I’m missing something, @Babale didn’t make that claim. As I read his posts, he’s been making that claim for days. “Technically” “being super charitable” it wasn’t an endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/146 "2026-11-04T00:42:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Also, I got that idea - that Carlson praised Abdul - from an article in the New York Times. Carlson HAS praised Abdul, but those clips aren’t in that ad. He has described Abdul’s campaign as “literally Trumpian” (I’m sure you can see why El Sayed didn’t use THAT clip!) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/147 "2026-11-04T00:48:32Z")
Eh… It’s a moral grey area. I don’t think he has to renounce it. I’d be seriously fucking creeped out by Carlson if I were him, though. Also, Trumpian? Where the hell is he getting that? Abdul has been running on an anti-corruption platform. Trump is the embodiment of corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/148 "2026-11-04T00:51:26Z")
This goes to show though that he seems to be in the habit of accepting praise wherever he can get it without really questioning the source, at least not publicly. So it tracks that he’d let both Carlson and Piker slide. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/149 "2026-11-04T00:52:12Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Also, Trumpian? Where the hell is he getting that? Abdul has been running on an anti-corruption platform. Trump is the embodiment of corruption. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Also, Trumpian? Where the hell is he getting that? Abdul has been running on an anti-corruption platform. Trump is the embodiment of corruption. I mean, running an anti corruption campaign is not exactly a difference from Trump. That was a major theme in 2016 and (paradoxically for an incumbent) in 2020. Trump obviously didn’t live up to it, but he did _campaign_ on anti-corruption. Hopefully Abdul lives up to it more than Trump did (not exactly difficult to be fair 🤣) He even alludes to this in the ad, saying to the trumpy audience, “we agree on many things, such as that Washington is a corrupt swamp.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/150 "2026-11-04T01:53:28Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Hopefully, you’re not claiming I’m doing that. Maybe you were using my quote as an example of other people doing that? Correct. Sorry, I was distracted while posting and should have been more clear. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/151 "2026-11-04T01:58:07Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > What I’m saying is, people want me to choose, and I don’t want to choose. I feel sympathy toward both communities and there’s a progressive push lately to indicate I should only feel sympathy for one. Is it worse to be Arab American or Jewish right now in America? Seems like both are having a rough go of it, and whatever you feel about the Israel/Palestine clusterfuck, American Jews and American Arabs had fuck-all to do with it. ^ Thank you for saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/152 "2026-11-04T02:20:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think for some people it’s too little too late. I think it’s a raw wound for a lot of people, and not something you can easily forget. I can’t speak for Jews, but I get the feeling that a lot of them are not feeling safe here, in this country. Well, I for one am someone of Jewish descent who is definitely feeling less safe these days. But it’s not because of El-Sayed. It’s White Christian Nationalists that scare me. > [@Babale](#): > > Maybe the endorsing Mike Rogers part is surprising, but denouncing El Sayed? After what he did to her? Not surprising at all. It may not be surprising she doesn’t like El-Sayed at this point but endorsing Mike Rogers is joining the enemy camp. Rogers holds positions I’m opposed to, like being anti-choice in reproductive matters, voted to de-fund Planned Parenthood, is pro-tarriff, walked back on saying Trump instigated the Jan 6 attack, supported the SAVE act, approved of the invasion of Iraq which I remind you was done on faked evidence of WMDs, opposed the Gordie Howe bridge (Detroit really did need a new bridge between the US and Canada), is actively supporting attacks on Iran, clearly doesn’t give a fuck about the impact of fuel prices rising as a result on the average person, claims the President can conduct a war without the approval of Congress or anyone else because I guess he thinks living under a dictator is a good thing, wants to end the Affordable Care Act because why the fuck do people need healthcare anyway, voted against care for 9/11 first responders who are ill because of their actions after that attack because fuck 'em too who gives a shit they’re suffering, is anti-immigration and anti-immigrant to the point he’s probably pro-concentration camp, Rogers is anti-LGBTQ+… he’s scum. He’s the sort of scum that’s been dragging the US down the toilet for 10 years now. People who support scum are also scum. It’s not that difficult a thing to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Gordon\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_G)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/153 "2026-11-04T05:15:20Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > > [@Gordon\_G](#): > > > > … I am filled with disgust. > > > > Party loyalty is often sacrosanct in American politics. Even top Republicans enlightened enough to hate Trump don’t vote for Democrats. They give the GOP, in effect, half a vote by leaving their ballot blank, or writing in some idol (e.g. Sean Hannity?) GWB for example has deprecated this kakistocracy, _ **but has he ever actually endorsed a Democrat?** _ > > > > Yet here is a “Democrat” who endorses a Republican. I want to puke. > > Your first paragraph, i agree with. The 2nd, I don’t. There have been multiple examples of republicans crossing party lines with endorsements. When your party has been co-opted by MAGA, doing the right thing pretty much requires you to do so. _ **Former** _ [Gordon’s emphasis] republican governors, congress members and state officials have backed democratic candidates in multiple states because they are finally putting country over party. The flip side of that is that there will be some democrats who show their true colors and do the opposite. So be it. Maybe my information is out of date. Do you have specific examples of high-profile GOPsters endorsing specific high-level Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/154 "2026-11-04T05:30:38Z")
> [@Gordon\_G](#): > > Maybe my information is out of date. Do you have specific examples of high-profile GOPsters endorsing specific high-level Democrats? Republican Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski endorsed Democrat Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins over three Republican candidates on the ballot in Alaska. Former Republican Congressman Ken Buck endorsed Democratic Attorney General Phil Weiser over the Republican nominee, Victor Marx, for the Colorado Gubernatorial race. Two former Republican governors have endorsed Democrat Adam Hamilton in his bid to oust incumbent Republican Senator Roger Marshall in Kansas. Marc Racicot, who was Montana’s governor in the 1990s and later led the RNC during George W. Bush’s first term, is backing Sam Forstag over Republican Aaron Flint in the state’s 1st Congressional District, currently held by Republican Ryan Zinke. In New Hampshire, a former Trump-backed nominee for U.S. Senate is among a group of Republicans who have endorsed the Democratic nominee in one of the most important Senate battlegrounds. Former Republican Governor David Beasley has endorsed Democrat Annie Andrews in South Carolina’s U.S. Senate race. Talarico’s campaign revealed a list of more than 20 Republicans endorsing him over his GOP opponent Ken Paxton, including former congressmen Steve Bartlett and Adam Kinzinger and Tom Phillips, the former chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court. In South Dakota, the state’s Republican Secretary of State Monae Johnson has endorsed a Democrat to succeed her in a state where a Democrat has not held statewide office in over a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Gordon\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gordon_G)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/155 "2026-11-04T05:52:16Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > > [@Gordon\_G](#): > > > > Maybe my information is out of date. Do you have specific examples of high-profile GOPsters endorsing specific high-level Democrats? > > Republican Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski endorsed Democrat Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins over three Republican candidates on the ballot in Alaska. Followed by three more examples of Non-“FORMER” top GOPsters endorsing obscure Democrats. Still better than what I recall when I Googled the question a few years ago. Just now I Googled "What top Republicans endorsed Kamala Harris? 13 high-ranked Republicans appeared **and all 13 had the word “Former” prefixed to their high post**. (The names included Cheney, Cheney, Schwarzenegger, Kinzinger, Flake, Hagel, Scaramucci, Stephanie Grisham and 5 more I’d never heard of. **Think of it!** : The most corrupt and incompetent President imaginable and ZERO high-ranked sitting Republicans came out against him.) [Stephanie Grisham spoke at the 2024 D. Convention.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGJE8novM_M) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/156 "2026-11-04T12:48:39Z")
This is the pit. So what the hell. > [@Babale](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > I discount you because you are so excessive in your critiques that i can’t read them and get any sense of what actually happened > > By which you mean you’re incapable of believing what is right in front of your eyes about someone who you have decided is an ideological ally. > > None of what I have said about El Sayed has been excessive. If it sounds excessive, it’s because his actual behavior has been egregious. > > For example the hurt people hurt people comment. Comparing that situation to the Pulse Nightclub shooting isn’t _excessive_, it’s a 1 to 1 comparison. Both murderers said that they were doing it because they were upset that a terrorist had been killed in the Middle East. You know what, _nothing_ about this race is _right in front of my eyes_. I don’t live in Michigan. I barely followed this race until it blew up in the SDMB “Senate races” thread. I have no idea if El-Sayed is my ideological ally. But you have lost my trust over time, with any number of extreme posts that leave out important details or background. Compare: > [@Babale](#): > > He spent four minutes explaining that the shooter was upset because he had relatives who died in Lebanon (he didn’t mention that those relatives were Hezbollah members) and then said that “hurt people hurt people” and asked us to imagine a world where Israel didn’t bomb his Hezbollah relatives and so he didn’t kill a bunch of Jews. To > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > No, the implication is that the response from El-Sayed to a terrorist attack on Jews in his state was to devote a considerable amount of his sympathy speech drumming up sympathy for the attacker, by pointing out the attacker had relatives killed by Israel’s government. He apparently wanted to platform the idea that anti-Semitic hate doesn’t come out of nowhere, but he did it at the worst possible time. I don’t know why he did this. I don’t know why he felt that was relevant at that time. Hence “read the room.” > … > So why would El-Sayed say that and why would he say it then? I think he said it because he’s genuinely pissed off at Israel and sympathetic toward Palestinians, and he couldn’t, for whatever reason, refrain from venting his spleen even though the moment clearly called for condemnation. This, coupled with his unapologetic association with noted anti-Semite Hasan Piker, has got some people concerned. I am one such person. You need to highlight that the guy’s relatives were Hezbollah (in a way that suggests El-Sayed’s relatives were Hezbollah) when that’s completely irrelevant. People are upset when their relatives are killed in war, that’s normal. You spend most of your post telling us the killer is unsympathetic. I don’t really identify with mass murderers. You didn’t need to tell me he’s unsympathetic. @Spice_Weasel doesn’t focus on the killer. She focuses on the question. What did _El-Sayed_ do, and why might he have done that, and why is it troubling. I mean, yes, if you hadn’t already lost my trust, i could have picked out the answer to the question from your post. But it’s very bare bones. (Except for the ranting about the murderer.) In contrast, @Spice_Weasel gives context about El-Sayed, rather than about the murderer. She explains when he said what. She makes it clear it’s not the only thing he said on the topic, just that he added this and she makes it clear that he said it at an extremely bad moment. She also adds something about the Hasan Piker issue. That’s a little bare bones. But i read it already feeling like i trust this post. So I’m inclined to trust that part of it, too. You are a hurt person hurting people. (Verbally, on a message board. Not by murdering innocent strangers.) I get that, and I try to cut you some slack for it. But your rage muddies whatever story you want to convey. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/157 "2026-11-04T13:53:53Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > in a way that suggests El-Sayed’s relatives were Hezbollah 🙄 Let me know if and when you want to have a good faith conversation, not whatever this bullshit accusation is. I expected better from you, of all fucking people. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/158 "2026-11-04T13:59:20Z")
If everyone thinks your post is unclear, maybe that’s on you. ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/159 "2026-11-04T14:02:27Z")
It’s blatantly obvious who he and his referred to in Babale’s post. If you can’t pass basic reading comprehension, that’s on you. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2026, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371/160 "2026-11-04T14:02:42Z")
I admitted that my use of pronouns was somewhat unclear, but that post implies that I did that intentionally to smear El Sayed, which is horseshit. I’m glad he beat Mike Rogers and is contributing to the Democrats’ majority in the Senate. I hope he can stop amplifying antisemitism going forward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abdul-el-sayed-vs-haley-stevens-progressives-vs-centrists-gloves-off-discussion/1034371.md?page=9)