Lincoln’s greatest achievement was his still-unanswered question:
“Vladimir Lenin - Overhyped?”
lincoln was a white supreacist and was using the emancipation as a politico/military maneuver.
there is a book: FORCED INTO GLORY about this but i haven’t read in. not that interested.
there are a lot of distorted heroes. did you know edison advocated the use of the electric chair, for self serving reasons. henry ford was given germany’s highest medal for a non-citizen by adolf hitler. wonder why?
Dal Timgar
Well, in Ford’s case, it’s because he was a rabid anti-Semite, and spent a bunch of money translating and publishing the Protocols.
As for Lincoln, calling him a “white supreacist” <sic> is kind of misleading. Lincoln did believe that whites were superior to blacks, but that was a pretty common viewpoint in 19th century America. I don’t know if you would find many Americans who didn’t believe that. He did seem to support emancipation, however, and he seems to have supported that long before his presidency. Frederick Douglass said of Lincoln, “He was the first white man who, in his presence, I was not reminded I was a Negro.”
Did the Proclamation have political purposes? Of course, but I also get the idea that Lincoln thought it was the right thing to do. If it was a simple political decision, it backfired. The Republicans were hit hard in the 1862 elections.
So? Still being under Federal authority (although several hundred thousand Confederate troops disagreed?), this invalidated the Fifth Amendment? (I know, I know… martial law & all that).
Here in Texas, we have a holiday called “Juneteenth.” It commemorates the day (June 19(?), 1865), when slaves in Texas found out that Lincoln “freed” them 2 1/2 years before. I guess all of those loyal Union soldiers weren’t too anxious to free all of the slaves in a non-combat zone.
Just curious: was the general sentiment among the numerous slaves in the loyal states “WTF? What about us?” They had to wait until the ratification of the 13th Amendment in Dec. 1865.
Actually, the fifth amendment should prohibit wars in general. It’s not like enemy soldiers are given due process before being shot. I’m not sure how legal scholars have rationalized that one.
What is your point? Union troops did not occupy Texas until June 1865. It was the last Confederate area to surrender. How could the union soldiers have freed Texan slaves any sooner?
Well, technically, the slaves were freed with the proclamation. The rebels were just holding them illegally.
I wonder whether anyone other than Lincoln would have been able to keep the United States from splitting in two (in the long run). It’s difficult to judge what the course of events would have been with a different leader in place.
Were there really “plenty of slaves” in loyal states? The northern states had already outlawed slavery well before the Civil War.
Apart from his politics, one reason that Lincoln is still so well-regarded is this little tidbit, which for my money, is one of the best pieces of political oratory ever:
Fifteen men HAD been in Lincoln’s place and had not done the same thing. I don’t recall James Buchanan, Franklin Pierce, or Millard Fillmore being emancipators.
As my country happily careens towards destruction thanks to a succession of Prime Ministers who don’t have the balls to stand up and say “this nation is indivisible,” I look at Lincoln and realize the value of having as leader a man who has the guts to stand and say “you cannot split up our country, and we’ll fight if that’s what it takes.”
“Any People anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and form a new one that suits them better… Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement.”
Abraham Lincoln, House of Representatives, Jan 12, 1848; in a speech comenting on the war with Mexico.
I’d have to see the context of this quote, but taking it at face value, his views changed. That happens.
Well, maybe the NORTHERN states, but there were 4 loyal “border” states that retained slavery: Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware.
For the record, Lincoln didn’t even free the slaves in areas of Confederate states already under Union control (that’s why 12 parishes of Louisiana, including the city of New Orleans, were exempted).
The EP was a shrewd military act, aimed at ruining the economy of areas which came under Union control (however temporarily) by freeing slaves (then an essential part of the economy). This would make it impossible for these areas to support the CSA military. Militarily, the modern equivalent would be to destroy farm equipment in conquered areas before moving on (or out).
I’m not saying this was evil (it certainly wasn’t), but if Lincoln was an abolitionist, it was disingenuous.
Enemy soldiers aren’t American citizens, and aren’t accorded American rights, privileges, and immunities. Does this help?
Lincoln is hyped for a single reason: He helped form the Republican Party, and became their mascot and rallying point.
The key words there, of course, are “having the power.” Which the South didn’t, thank God.
Well, that’s why I hype him and tell all those darned democrats they have no right to admire him, but they refuse to agree, the pikers. :rolleyes:
Lincoln is admired, IMO, because he upheld the Union and safeguarded it through civil war. I take leave to doubt that just anyone could have done it, or done it as well.
There’s a wonderful passage in Clavell’s “Shogun” where Blackthorne (the hero) is at one of his first audiences with Lord Toronaga, who is asking him about the war the Dutch are fighting against the Spanish. Toronaga in unimpressed with the Dutch rebelling against their masters, and asks Blackthorne what justification there could possibly be for such dishonourable behaviour.
Blackthorne replies that there is one justification: “If you win.”
Toronaga is quite satisfied with the response.