# Abolition of the British Monarchy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479 "2012-01-24T05:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/41 "2012-01-25T00:15:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Do British republicans have a political party or anything? The closest they have to US republicans are the Tories. Conservative right wing etc. There is no real desire in England to push for a republic. People who attack the queen or chuck are looking at the wrong place. The institution of the constitutional monarchy is sound. It fulfills a very important role in the checks and balances of government, so forget the person it is the office that we need to address. Could we have a more low key royal presence? Possibly but as they have been the figurehead of the country [and once and empire] I think that you will find that people will still admire them etc. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, Queen aside, Canada has a ceremonial head of state (well, technically a viceregal) called the Governor-General (ostensibly a royal appointment, the prime ministers selects a candidate, who - typically - gets vetted by Parliament and then rubber-stamped into the post). Of course, a key factor is having a legislature that hasn’t developed a taste for fuck-around tactics and parliamentary tricks. yep we have the same system in Aus. Although some say it is a figurehead we did get a prime minister sacked once due to blocking of supply in both houses. This is a big reason that the labor party is royal, oh and that a core of the labor party comes from strong Irish stock. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/42 "2012-01-25T00:26:26Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > This is a big reason that the labor party is royal, oh and that a core of the labor party comes from strong Irish stock. 😕 When were the Irish ever royalists?! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/43 "2012-01-25T00:47:29Z")
Thing is, ever since Charles I was declared 8 inches shorter by act of parliament, parliament decides who the monarch is. So the UK has an elected monarch, sort of. And just recently Edward VIII was chucked out on his ear for misbehavior. So, since Parliament chooses the national mascot, who cares that they usually choose the oldest kid of the last mascot? ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/44 "2012-01-25T00:50:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 When were the Irish ever royalists?! oops labor are republicans, typo:smack: ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/45 "2012-01-25T01:01:08Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Thing is, ever since Charles I was declared 8 inches shorter by act of parliament, parliament decides who the monarch is. So the UK has an elected monarch, sort of. And just recently Edward VIII was chucked out on his ear for misbehavior. > > So, since Parliament chooses the national mascot, who cares that they usually choose the oldest kid of the last mascot? No the Parliament does NOT appoint who the next royal is, they can change the rules such as eliminating male-preference cognatic primogeniture. So in some ways if you control the rules you can determine next in line. Edward VIII was an abdication not a sacking and in fact for it to happen they had to authorise a new act at the time. Also the Prime Minister is appointed by the Monarch but this is normally a rubber stamp process. Not bad for a bunch of lizards…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/46 "2012-01-25T01:08:57Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > The closest they have to US republicans are the Tories. Conservative right wing etc. You need to watch capital letters here. (1) Almost everyone in the U.S. is a republican – there are almost no monarchists there, in any serious sense. (2) About one in two of the voters in the U.S. is a Republican – and most of the others are Democrats. (3) The party that most closely responds in the U.K. to the U.S. Republican Party is the Conservative Party. (4) There would be very few republicans in the Conservative Party – practically all of them would be monarchists. So, “Republican” = supporter of the G.O.P., and “republican” = supporter of a republic as a form of government. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/47 "2012-01-25T01:09:48Z")
> **[Cat and Girl](https://catandgirl.com/ascending/)** > [@](#): > > Girl: Feudalism is a pretty clear exchange. Subjects trade AUTONOMY for PROTECTION. The ruler’s authority lies in his ability to provide that protection. > An oligarchy - TOO - recognizes that privilege comes with obligations - Noblesse Oblige - when your country goes to war you volunteer to lead the fight - World War I - The decimation of the sons of Britain’s upper class … > In our mixed Oligarchy-Meritocracy those awarded advantages by BIRTH believe those advantages to be EARNED and believe themselves EXEMPT from obligation. > **[Cat and Girl](https://catandgirl.com/descending/)** > [@](#): > > Girl: Everyone’s out for THEMSELVES - cashing in bonuses and fleeing the scene - securing their advantage AGAINST the hoi polloi rather than FOR it. And if society FAILS so BE it ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/48 "2012-01-25T01:12:26Z")
Elizabeth seems a reasonably fine person. But Charles is such a ninny he makes me grateful I’m an American. I don’t know how you Brits will stand him once she passes on. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/49 "2012-01-25T01:13:11Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > oops labor are republicans, typo:smack: The UK Labour party is not republican by policy. There is no major political party that advocates the abolition of the monarchy. Now I would guess that far more republicans identify with and vote for the Labour party than the Tories, but that’s not really the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/50 "2012-01-25T01:54:59Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > The UK Labour party is not republican by policy. There is no major political party that advocates the abolition of the monarchy. > > Now I would guess that far more republicans identify with and vote for the Labour party than the Tories, but that’s not really the same thing. I was talking about Australian no U Labor and not correct spelling UK Labour. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/51 "2012-01-25T01:57:06Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > I was talking about Australian no U Labor and not correct spelling UK Labour. Fair enough, apologies for the misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/52 "2012-01-25T01:58:54Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > So, “Republican” = supporter of the G.O.P., and “republican” = supporter of a republic as a form of government. So, are British republicans in any way organized? Or is it just, like, a kind of tradition for certain classes of intellectuals to be republican? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/53 "2012-01-25T02:21:04Z")
I’m a Yank and mostly don’t mind Charles, outside of his messy romantic life. His first marriage was a bit embarrassing, but have you seen how politicians behave? He’s practically a man of probity by comparison. If Great Britain goes republican (itself unlikely), I imagine some of the colonies will lean toward installing him as monarch elsewhere, and maintain the children of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha as heads of the Commonwealth. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/54 "2012-01-25T02:39:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, are British republicans in any way organized? Or is it just, like, a kind of tradition for certain classes of intellectuals to be republican? There are republican organisations scattered around. The biggest one is [Republic](http://www.republic.org.uk/) (strangely enough). I don’t see them as a mainstream political force, though. It seems to me that there are any number of people who, in principle, would prefer the abolition of the monarchy. But it’s not really a “live” political issue. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/55 "2012-01-25T03:02:10Z")
Agreed. Here’s more: [Republicanism in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_republican_movement#21st_century) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/56 "2012-01-25T04:55:20Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > No the Parliament does NOT appoint who the next royal is, they can change the rules such as eliminating male-preference cognatic primogeniture. So in some ways if you control the rules you can determine next in line. > > Edward VIII was an abdication not a sacking and in fact for it to happen they had to authorise a new act at the time. Yes, he abdicated, but they were holding a gun to his head. He very much did not want to abdicate. He was sacked, period. Yes, Parliament has to pass a law to sack the Monarch. And so? Of course the Parliament doesn’t appoint the next royal. But if the “next royal” is unsuitable, as Edward was, they will surely sack him, and if he doesn’t like it he’ll end up like Charles I. Not that I expect Prince Charles to make a mess of things, he wants to be king very much and will do his duty. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/57 "2012-01-25T06:09:48Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes, he abdicated, but they were holding a gun to his head. He very much did not want to abdicate. He was sacked, period. Yes, Parliament has to pass a law to sack the Monarch. And so? > > Of course the Parliament doesn’t appoint the next royal. But if the “next royal” is unsuitable, as Edward was, they will surely sack him, and if he doesn’t like it he’ll end up like Charles I. Not that I expect Prince Charles to make a mess of things, he wants to be king very much and will do his duty. But it was still an abdication, they do not have specific powers to get rid of a monarch but there are always ways to game the system. He valued something more than his monarchy, so he did make a choice. If he had adhered to the rules he would have stayed in power. Meh I think they might skip Charles altogether and go for Will. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/58 "2012-01-25T06:30:02Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > … they do not have specific powers to get rid of a monarch but there are always ways to game the system. … The U.K. Parliament does not need powers: it has general powers to legislate on any matter with respect to the U.K. So, next week, they could pass a bill saying that Queen Elizabeth ceases to be monarch, and Lady Gaga is now the Queen of the United Kingdom – only provided that, under the [Statute of Westminster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Westminster_1931), they had the consent of the parliaments of the other dominions. (And Canada, Australia or any of the other dominions under the Crown could unilaterally abolish the monarchy with respect to their country, or choose a different monarch, without the consent of the U.K. or of the other dominions.) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/59 "2012-01-25T06:41:35Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Meh I think they might skip Charles altogether and go for Will. Then they need to get the ball rolling on that (which they won’t, because it’s not an idea with serious backing). That change would have to be made in advance of the Queen’s death, and I don’t mean to be macabre, but she’s 85. By all accounts she’s a healthy 85, but actuarially the country needs to have its bags packed for that event. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/60 "2012-01-25T07:36:12Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Meh I think they might skip Charles altogether and go for Will. Much as Charles is less popular than Will, I think most people appreciate that part of the package of a monarchy is that it is hereditary. There is no tradition in Britain of abdication past a certain age (unlike European monarchies), and I don’t think we’d like to start even with Charles. The consensus is that it’s his ‘turn’, so we should give him a chance. Plus, once you start actively selecting which of the monarch’s offspring gets to succeed her, you start making it practically elected (and all the messy jostling for position that entails). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479.md?page=4)