# Abolition of the British Monarchy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479 "2012-01-24T05:23:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/61 "2012-01-25T07:58:29Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > [Cat and Girl](http://catandgirl.com/?p=24) > > [Cat and Girl](http://catandgirl.com/?p=26) _HOW_ have I never seen or heard of this amazing and beautiful webcomic before? I’m blaming all of you! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/62 "2012-01-26T03:03:20Z")
It ain’t broke, don’t fix it. QE2 is pretty much the ideal figurehead leader in the way she conducts herself, Charles’ failings are minor, and William seems exemplary so far. If they change then my opinion might do too. Getting rid of them then either giving the PM more power or having an elected President of some sort would also cost a hell of a lot of money in the short term, and probably not save much in the long term, if it saved any money at all. The Royals aren’t that stupid and they have lots of advisors who really aren’t stupid; if they do have to leave, they’ll find some way to keep a lot of the royal properties and income. There are no practical reasons to get rid of them, in other words. Philosophically, in some ways it would be nice to say ‘we are a country in which simply being born out of the right vagina doesn’t guarantee you money and power.’ But getting rid of the monarchy wouldn’t make that true - they’d still have money and power and so would all the other rich people. At least with the Royals in situ we can’t pretend to be more equal than we really are. I also detest the thought of having yet another greasy rung for politicians to cling onto. > [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Much as Charles is less popular than Will, I think most people appreciate that part of the package of a monarchy is that it is hereditary. There is no tradition in Britain of abdication past a certain age (unlike European monarchies), and I don’t think we’d like to start even with Charles. > > The consensus is that it’s his ‘turn’, so we should give him a chance. Plus, once you start actively selecting which of the monarch’s offspring gets to succeed her, you start making it practically elected (and all the messy jostling for position that entails). He’s kinda getting less objectionable as he gets older, too. By the time he gets to be King, he’ll be old enough that people will have mostly forgotten his infidelity - which is the only ‘bad’ thing he’s ever really done. I actually kinda like him - he seems like a slightly nerdy man with not much natural charm who has the audacity to have personal opinions on art and architecture. If he makes a good speech after his mother dies then it’ll be a big old Georgian love-in. I’m also not so sure William would go for it. He doesn’t seem to like the limelight much and he does seem to like his Dad. Hell, maybe Charles would even want to step aside, but that’d be creating an unwanted precedent and it’d be forcing William to be King earlier than necessary. Remember that quote about asking the best leaders being those who don’t really want the job but can do it anyway? We seem to have lucked out and got three in a row. Four, counting Liz’s Dad, and his Nazi-appeasing brother showed that even with the figurehead status of monarch there are some people who aren’t really up to the job. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/63 "2012-01-26T04:29:03Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Elizabeth seems a reasonably fine person. But Charles is such a ninny he makes me grateful I’m an American. I don’t know how you Brits will stand him once she passes on. A ninny? I like that. It will certainly be interesting to see what kind of a king he makes. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/64 "2012-01-26T04:41:59Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Then they need to get the ball rolling on that (which they won’t, because it’s not an idea with serious backing). That change would have to be made in advance of the Queen’s death, and I don’t mean to be macabre, but she’s 85. By all accounts she’s a healthy 85, but actuarially the country needs to have its bags packed for that event. True, but keep in mind just how long the women in her family tend to live. True, her sister died in her 70s, but Princess Margaret also had a long history of smoking, alcoholism, and drug abuse. Charles will probally be in his 80s when he becomes king; I doubt he’ll reign more that 10 yrs. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/65 "2012-01-26T05:36:46Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > True, but keep in mind just how long the women in her family tend to live. True, her sister died in her 70s, but Princess Margaret also had a long history of smoking, alcoholism, and drug abuse. Charles will probally be in his 80s when he becomes king; I doubt he’ll reign more that 10 yrs. Ages at death: Father (George VI) -56 Mother (Queen [Mother] Elizabeth) - 101 Paternal Grandfather (George V) - 70 Paternal Grandmother (Queen Mary) - 85 Maternal Grandfather (Earl of Strathmore) - 89 Maternal Grandmother (Countess of Strathmore) - 75 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/66 "2012-01-26T05:38:49Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > True, but keep in mind just how long the women in her family tend to live. Her three aunts who lived to adulthood all died in their 60s or 70s, and her grandmothers died at 75 and 85. None of the late Queen Mother’s siblings lived past age 77. (It’s entirely possible that the Queen might live to 100, but it’s possible and probably probable that she will not. Tabulating the ages of random relatives is probably meaningless.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/67 "2012-01-26T06:15:59Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Ages at death: > Father (George VI) -56 > Mother (Queen [Mother] Elizabeth) - 101 > Paternal Grandfather (George V) - 70 > Paternal Grandmother (Queen Mary) - 85 > Maternal Grandfather (Earl of Strathmore) - 89 > Maternal Grandmother (Countess of Strathmore) - 75 :eek: We’ve discovered the Howard Families! ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/68 "2012-01-26T06:22:55Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Ages at death: > Father (George VI) -56 > Mother (Queen [Mother] Elizabeth) - 101 > Paternal Grandfather (George V) - 70 > Paternal Grandmother (Queen Mary) - 85 > Maternal Grandfather (Earl of Strathmore) - 89 > Maternal Grandmother (Countess of Strathmore) - 75 Her Grandparents’ ages were either better than average or damn good for their time. Some of those deaths - her father’s and sister’s especially - seem also to be connected to smoking; she doesn’t smoke. She’s not just old, but remarkably healthy. Expecting her to live another ten years is not betting against the odds. And Chuck is already quite old and looks about the same age as his mother; he walks with a stick whereas she still doesn’t. A short reign does seem likely - very like Edward VII. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/69 "2012-01-26T07:13:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: We’ve discovered the Howard Families! Woodrow Wilson Windsor? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/70 "2012-01-26T08:48:46Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > And Chuck is already quite old and looks about the same age as his mother; he walks with a stick whereas she still doesn’t. A short reign does seem likely - very like Edward VII. And also very much like Edward VII, Charles is seen as less-than-capable of filling his mother’s shoes. And Edward VII surprised everyone with how well he managed! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/71 "2012-01-26T09:22:36Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > And also very much like Edward VII, Charles is seen as less-than-capable of filling his mother’s shoes. And Edward VII surprised everyone with how well he managed! I’ve always thought the criticism of Charles is rather unfair. Unlike Edward VII, he is by no means a playboy and seems to work very hard. Some of his charity work, such as the Prince’s Trust, has been fantastic, and he really doesn’t get the credit I think he deserves. Sure, he gets himself embroiled in contoversy over things like his views on architecture, but at least he’s passionate. I imagine he’ll be a pretty good King. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/72 "2012-01-26T09:48:17Z")
> [@GeddyClaypoolBurton](#): > > So I ask your opinion. Do you think that the royals are spoiled brats that are of complete uselessness to the realistic legislative governing of the United Kingdom and that Britain should abolish the monarchy in the coming decades and take on a name that sounds a little less authoritarian - for example, the United British Republic? Or do you think that these super-privileged assholes should continue thinking that they’re more important than everyone else while living in seclusion in their several high-end mansions? :dubious: I think you’ve already made up your own mind and are witnessing. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/73 "2012-01-26T09:48:17Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I’ve always thought the criticism of Charles is rather unfair. Unlike Edward VII, he is by no means a playboy and seems to work very hard. Some of his charity work, such as the Prince’s Trust, has been fantastic, and he really doesn’t get the credit I think he deserves. Sure, he gets himself embroiled in contoversy over things like his views on architecture, but at least he’s passionate. I imagine he’ll be a pretty good King. I agree. There have been some concerns over his less orthodox interests, mind - such as his advocacy of homeopathy - but he will have no power over healthcare and I’d rather he obsess over such tiny issues as these rather than attempt to stomp into the political arena on bigger issues. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/74 "2012-01-26T15:51:42Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > …She’s not just old, but remarkably healthy. Expecting her to live another ten years is not betting against the odds… I agree. And in less than four years, she’ll surpass Queen Victoria as the longest-reigning British monarch: > **[List of monarchs in Britain by length of reign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_British_monarchs#The_current_monarch)** > > The following is a list, ordered by length of reign, of the monarchs of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (1927–present), the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (1801–1922), the Kingdom of Great Britain (1707–1801), the Kingdom of England (871–1707), the Kingdom of Scotland (878–1707), the Kingdom of Ireland (1542–1800), and the Principality of Wales (1216–1542). > Queen Elizabeth II became the longest-reigning monarch in British history on 9 September 2015 whe... ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/75 "2012-01-26T16:07:18Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > I do, however, like the Head of State being (a) non-party political and (b) pretty well ring-fenced from the temptation of corruption (directly or indirectly), if you can find me those qualities in another format, I’m all ears? Hrmmm. That would be nice. The cost of maintaining the royals doesn’t seem to be particularly high considering the tourism they generate. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > [Cat and Girl](http://catandgirl.com/?p=24) > > [Cat and Girl](http://catandgirl.com/?p=26) Very good observations. > [@Lemur866](#): > > So, since Parliament chooses the national mascot, who cares that they usually choose the oldest kid of the last mascot? They are popular and beloved mascots but they largely serve that role. They have about as much power as the Vice President of the United States, less actually. And noone come to America on vacation to catch a glimpse of the Vice President or where he lives. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/76 "2012-01-29T15:12:07Z")
A new American bio of HM: [Elizabeth The Queen - The Life of a Modern Monarch - By Sally Bedell Smith - Book Review - The New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/books/review/elizabeth-the-queen-the-life-of-a-modern-monarch-by-sally-bedell-smith-book-review.html?_r=1&ref=books) ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/77 "2012-01-29T16:31:14Z")
What other countries have monarchies? Japan, Norway, and some others. It’s still fairly commonplace. I’ve read that most all American presidents have royal, “blue” blood. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/78 "2012-01-29T16:34:41Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > And Chuck is already quite old and looks about the same age as his mother; he walks with a stick whereas she still doesn’t. I didn’t know that. Can you give us a link? I’ve seen him use a walking stick on country walks but that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/79 "2012-01-29T17:15:23Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > What other countries have monarchies? Japan, Norway, and some others. It’s still fairly commonplace… There are 44 monarchies today, many of which are in the British Commonwealth. See the map here: [Monarchy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479/80 "2012-01-29T22:22:19Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > I’ve read that most all American presidents have royal, “blue” blood. So does just about everybody else. The concept of monarchy has been around long enough that pretty much everybody is going to descend from some monarch somewhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abolition-of-the-british-monarchy/610479.md?page=5)