# Abortion and Animal Cruelty Laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462 "2011-03-30T03:02:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/1 "2011-03-30T03:02:29Z")
If abortion is a “choice” for the mother, why are there animal cruelty laws? If the animal is in the possession of an individual, why shouldn’t he or she treat the animal as he/she wishes if it does not harm any other human being? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/2 "2011-03-30T03:04:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > If abortion is a “choice” for the mother, why are there animal cruelty laws? If the animal is in the possession of an individual, why shouldn’t he or she treat the animal as he/she wishes if it does not harm any other human being? Are you under the impression that you get extra points for total non sequiturs? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/3 "2011-03-30T03:06:08Z")
Abortion involves no cruelty. Animals can suffer. Zygotes can’t. Also, animals don’t live inside another person’s body (unless you cound parasites which we are, in fact, allowed to kill). ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/4 "2011-03-30T03:06:26Z")
Well, the animal cruelty laws don’t prevent you killing an animal. They merely prevent cruelty to it. I don’t think you need any reason whatsoever to have an animal put to sleep. You certainly don’t need to have any reason to kill an animal for food. So I am not sure of what you are trying to say here. And were the animal dependent on the human “owner” for sustenance, and living physically inside the human “owner” then the situation might be a little more similar. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/5 "2011-03-30T03:10:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Abortion involves no cruelty. Animals can suffer. Zygotes can’t. > > Also, animals don’t live inside another person’s body (unless you cound parasites which we are, in fact, allowed to kill). Both involves inflicting (for abortions) destruction or (for animal cruelty) violence on an organism with a beating heart with the exception that fetuses will eventually be humans. > [@villa](#): > > Well, the animal cruelty laws don’t prevent you killing an animal. They merely prevent cruelty to it. I don’t think you need any reason whatsoever to have an animal put to sleep. You certainly don’t need to have any reason to kill an animal for food. So I am not sure of what you are trying to say here. > > And were the animal dependent on the human “owner” for sustenance, and living physically inside the human “owner” then the situation might be a little more similar. Many animals depend directly on their masters for food and water. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/6 "2011-03-30T03:14:28Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Both involves inflicting (for abortions) destruction or (for animal cruelty) violence on an organism with a beating heart There is no equivalency between cruelty to a sentient animal, and the destruction of an insentient clump of cells. One causes pain and suffering. One does not. > [@](#): > > with the exception that fetuses will eventually be humans. Not if they’re terminated. > [@](#): > > Many animals depend directly on their masters for food and water. People don’t have to adopt them. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/7 "2011-03-30T03:14:57Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Many animals depend directly on their masters for food and water. Do you honestly think the two are comparable? Holy God, I try to give you the benefit of the doubt but sometimes it is phenomenally difficult. Without the human host, there is no future whatsoever for a 2 day old zygote. None. If a human owner decides that Fido isn’t in their plans any more and leaves him beside the highway, the owner is a shit, but Fido can lap up water from a puddle and eat the hot dog thrown out of the SUV window. That you cannot see a difference there is unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/8 "2011-03-30T03:18:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no equivalency between cruelty to a sentient animal, and the destruction of an insentient clump of cells. One causes pain and suffering. One does not. What if the animal was drugged and then abused? The animal would not feel pain or suffering. > [@](#): > > Not if they’re terminated. Thus abortion prevents fetuses from becoming born and develop as human beings. > [@villa](#): > > Do you honestly think the two are comparable? Holy God, I try to give you the benefit of the doubt but sometimes it is phenomenally difficult. > > Without the human host, there is no future whatsoever for a 2 day old zygote. None. If a human owner decides that Fido isn’t in their plans any more and leaves him beside the highway, the owner is a shit, but Fido can lap up water from a puddle and eat the hot dog thrown out of the SUV window. That you cannot see a difference there is unbelievable. Alright, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/9 "2011-03-30T03:20:27Z")
If you can “have it your way” at Burger King, why can’t you char broil a fetus? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/10 "2011-03-30T03:32:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If you can “have it your way” at Burger King, why can’t you char broil a fetus? Char Broil is Murder!! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/11 "2011-03-30T03:37:53Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What if the animal was drugged and then abused? The animal would not feel pain or suffering. “Abused” in what way? > [@](#): > > Thus abortion prevents fetuses from becoming born and develop as human beings. So what? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/12 "2011-03-30T03:38:25Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What if the animal was drugged and then abused? The animal would not feel pain or suffering. Okay just how are you abusing the animal so it won’t have any injury or loss of function after the drug wears off? It’s not a sheep is it? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/13 "2011-03-30T14:14:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you under the impression that you get extra points for total non sequiturs? I’m looking forward to next week’s Abortion v. Jaywalking thread. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/14 "2011-03-30T18:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Abortion involves no cruelty. Animals can suffer. Zygotes can’t. Zygotes can’t, but fetuses can. Not all abortions are early term. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/15 "2011-03-30T18:06:31Z")
As was pointed out above, you are free to kill any animal in your body, be it tapeworm, HIV or fetus. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/16 "2011-03-30T18:07:53Z")
Animal cruelty laws do not stand in the way of me euthanizing my pet, only being cruel to it, causing it to suffer. I can kill a cow to make burgers, but I can’t torture it to death to make burgers. Abortion, in most cases, is a woman trying to keep a child from suffering. Suffering from not being wanted, suffering from not having a father on the scene, suffering from having a heroin addict for a mother, etc. Are you really unable to see the difference or are you just trolling for reactions? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/17 "2011-03-30T18:47:02Z")
Do you know they actually perform abortions on animals too, **Qin**? 😉 (For example, if a cat is pregnant with a litter too large, they may have to remove some, or all of the zygotes.) The only way your OP remotely makes sense is if I had a cat living inside of me. Which I don’t. This has to be one of the STUPIDEST comparisons I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/18 "2011-03-30T19:17:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Zygotes can’t, but fetuses can. Not all abortions are early term. Not exactly. The dividing line between zygote and fetus isn’t defined but an ability to suffer. A full term fetus could probably suffer, but I don’t believe the current thinking is that a 1st trimester fetus can. It probably gets a little more dicey sometime in the 2nd trimester. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/19 "2011-03-30T19:23:20Z")
Hunting animals is legal. Why can’t I hunt humans? People can get a driver’s license. Why can’t my canine friend Blackjack get a driver’s license (he says he knows how to drive)? Blackjack does have a dog license. [Why can’t a fish get a license](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnq96W9jtuw)? These thought provoking questions are the reason for this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462/20 "2011-03-30T19:58:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Not exactly. The dividing line between zygote and fetus isn’t defined but an ability to suffer. The point where suffering becomes possible is probably somewhere in the embryo stage, between zygote and fetus. But I’m not sure exactly where it is, which is why I went with the more conservative stage. And certainly, there are _some_ fetuses capable of suffering. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-animal-cruelty-laws/576462.md?page=2)