# Abortion and prayer for the unborn's well being **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520 "2015-07-07T22:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/61 "2015-07-09T19:35:05Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Does “thank God that’s overwith” count? Yes that counts as a prayer. Congratulations you are now a Christian. Now go forth and annoy the atheists. > [@Scumpup](#): > > This, most of all, knew Scumpup: that arrogance is predictable. This is a pretty arrogant thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/62 "2015-07-09T19:49:44Z")
So is the question: For those of you who had an abortion, did you say a prayer for the aborted fetus? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/63 "2015-07-09T20:19:16Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To me denying a unborn child ‘personhood’ is equal to denying a woman, black, or homosexual personhood and as equally despicable and ultimately indefensible. Yes, to me. the woman has the unquestionable right to decide the fate of the unborn within her but that does not negate the personhood of the aborted, and the respect given. I have no idea what you mean by, “denying a (sic) unborn child personhood,” and I don’t think you do, either. So _stating_ that a fetus is not a person offends you, but ending the life of that fetus does not? Which do you consider to be the greater denial of personhood? So, are you one of those people who believes, “Abortion is murder but I find it morally acceptable.”? I don’t want to put words in your mouth, I’m just trying to understand what your position is, if you know. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/64 "2015-07-09T21:39:39Z")
You are looking for logic in a **kanicbird** post? Have you never come across him before? He is _legitimately_ insane. As in, “hearing voices telling him to do things and seeing demons in people’s faces” insane. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/65 "2015-07-09T21:50:12Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > No prayers as far as I know. I am not Christian or Catholic and do not worry terribly about its soul, especially since I don’t believe in such a thing. Anyway a kindly god - and I want no other - wouldn’t penalize an unborn baby because of its parents’ actions. You say a kindly god would not penalize an unborn baby because of its parents’ actions. OK your definition of god and mine are different, as to me we are to be one with god and to be god. As such we acknowledge the soul and wish it well on it’s journey with the full godly authority to abort, not doing so to me seems to incur a karmic penalty and denial of reality and quote frankly the diminishment of women. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/66 "2015-07-09T21:52:19Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Yes, if this confused and sneering effort by Kanicbird represents Christianity, I’m staying well clear of that religion. I agree. Many atheists have a god that is more defined by Christianity then I do. Ask them what God is and you will generally get the Christian God, ask me and you will get only love (ok I am not perfect on this, but better then most atheists) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/67 "2015-07-09T22:31:52Z")
Quite frankly this post has been amazing and way beyond the pole. What it is to be accepted in the pro-choice camps is to me very diminishing of womanhood. Not understanding a simple OP goes to show that a entirely different view of reality has to be believed to the point that they can not understand a certain counter view point (this is quite frankly scary), and it appears to incur a karmic penalty that is the exact opposite of what that woman needs - understanding and respect, instead she gets hiding. In this she has to deny the personhood of the one she is ending the physical life of yet may be in need of loving compassion (karmically how can this happen?) To me God has granted the woman godhood over that life, to accept or decline, in that God shows great respect for women, more then the typical pro choice camp and greater then the typical pro life camp. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/68 "2015-07-09T22:37:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps if there was an option for “Saw no need for prayer”, the poll wouldn’t seem so lopsided? > edited to add: Also, references to “the baby” and “the unborn” tend to show a bit of prejudice on the side of the pollster, I think. Well perhaps on both, but it is a different viewpoint which I realized is more different then I expected. To me the thing in the womb is a child with a soul - no questions no issues. But I didn’t want to ask if the woman felt no prayer was needed, but was prayer offered or suspected. As this thread shows many women believe that the unborn need no prayer, os that itself would skew the results. It is a child to me, yes it may skew the results but no more then embryo or fetus would. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/69 "2015-07-09T22:38:25Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > A simple pole on a complex topic, was prayer to some sort of ‘God’ or ‘god’ offered for the well being of the entity aborted. Athena considers reasonable requests, but not prayers. Too servile… ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/70 "2015-07-09T22:40:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Well perhaps on both, but it is a different viewpoint which I realized is more different then I expected. To me the thing in the womb is a child with a soul - no questions no issues. > > But I didn’t want to ask if the woman felt no prayer was needed, but was prayer offered or suspected. As this thread shows many women believe that the unborn need no prayer, os that itself would skew the results. > > It is a child to me, yes it may skew the results but no more then embryo or fetus would. Even if that’s true, the child is now dead. Why the need for prayer? Sucks to be the dead baby, but God will be kind, no? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/71 "2015-07-09T22:43:40Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > I think, in general, people are being honest. Why did you post this if you didn’t want the answers? My initial assumption was that the child was considered a person with a soul, my realization is that not only is that not the norm, it is actually incomprehensible to some. This leads me to the conclusion of needed not to consider that life a soul is what pro choice is about, altering the ability to understand reality, (and also causes karmic consequences - as stated above) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/72 "2015-07-09T22:50:07Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My initial assumption was that the child was considered a person with a soul, my realization is that not only is that not the norm, it is actually incomprehensible to some. > > This leads me to the conclusion of needed not to consider that life a soul is what pro choice is about, altering the ability to understand reality, (and also causes karmic consequences - as stated above) I do not understand your second paragraph ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/73 "2015-07-09T22:50:08Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Even if that’s true, the child is now dead. Why the need for prayer? Sucks to be the dead baby, but God will be kind, no? To me the child is not dead, life and death have a different meaning to me. But the good will intentions of those who are of god (all of us) are part of god. To me how you treat others will be how you are treated, this includes how you treat the unborn, but also respects your decision as it is yours, given by God. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/74 "2015-07-09T22:55:01Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > No prayers as far as I know. I am not Christian or Catholic and do not worry terribly about its soul, especially since I don’t believe in such a thing. Anyway a kindly god - and I want no other - wouldn’t penalize an unborn baby because of its parents’ actions. Silly Knickerbocker. Catholics ARE Christians To punish you for spreading the slander that they are not, I have directed an Anne Hathaway model slapbot to track down and thrash Christian Bale. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/75 "2015-07-09T23:01:49Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I do not understand your second paragraph Fair enough. Original: > [@](#): > > This leads me to the conclusion of needed not to consider that life a soul is what pro choice is about, altering the ability to understand reality, (and also causes karmic consequences - as stated above) Let me re-write it" This leads me to the conclusion that the pro choice movement has influenced many women (and men) to incur a karmic penalty by causing them to deny reality and their very beings to the point that they can not even consider another point of view, they are not incapable of it and state that it is not understandable (needed to protect themselves). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/76 "2015-07-09T23:20:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Why would this be needed? An unborn child’s soul would be pure and unsullied by sin, never had the chance to know or reject God and therefore no reason not to go to heaven. But how do you baptize a zygote? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/77 "2015-07-09T23:42:09Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Fair enough. > Original: > Let me re-write it" > > This leads me to the conclusion that the pro choice movement has influenced many women (and men) to incur a karmic penalty by causing them to deny reality and their very beings to the point that they can not even consider another point of view, they are not incapable of it and state that it is not understandable (needed to protect themselves). I’m wondering what, if any, answers would have led you to any other conclusions. Especially when many responses were telling you how poorly you wrote the question. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/78 "2015-07-10T00:12:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m wondering what, if any, answers would have led you to any other conclusions. Especially when many responses were telling you how poorly you wrote the question. Forget it Jake, it’s **Kanicbird** town. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/79 "2015-07-10T00:28:15Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > But how do you baptize a zygote? Use a syringe? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520/80 "2015-07-10T01:06:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Ask them what God is and you will generally get the Christian God, ask me and you will get only love (ok I am not perfect on this, but better then most atheists) > [@kanicbird](#): > > Not understanding a simple OP goes to show that a entirely different view of reality has to be believed to the point that they can not understand a certain counter view point (this is quite frankly scary), and it appears to incur a karmic penalty that is the exact opposite of what that woman needs - understanding and respect, instead she gets hiding. So, faced with the evidence in this thread that many people do not feel a need for prayer for the unborn’s well being, and remembering that women are people, would you consider it acting with loving compassion to provide that prayer against the will of the mother? Is that showing understanding and respect, or is that asking her to hide her wants and feelings? And if God is Love, then what well being are you concerned with on behalf of the unborn? If they’re back with God, then they’re with Love, no? Seems about as well as a Being can get to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-prayer-for-the-unborns-well-being/724520.md?page=5)