# Abortion and the future of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 10, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935 "2023-11-10T13:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/21 "2023-11-10T18:07:26Z")
[Michigan Republicans Dig in on Abortion; Sue to Overturn Will of Voters](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/michigan-republicans-dig-in-on-abortion-sue-to-overturn-will-of-voters/ar-AA1jFug8) > Two Michigan anti-choice activist groups are working with Republican lawmakers to sue the state and block the implementation of a voter-approved constitutional amendment protecting access to abortion rights… > > The lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction on the implementation of the amendment and argues that the wording of the text creates a “super-right” to reproductive freedom. Whatever happened to ‘Let the Voters decide!’? For a Party that talks so much about freedom, they sure do like taking freedoms away. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/22 "2023-11-10T18:11:10Z")
Everyone else’s freedoms. Not theirs. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/23 "2023-11-11T18:16:09Z")
The freedom of _people_, not _women_. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/24 "2023-11-11T19:35:11Z")
I think it’s very easy for a woman to be pro-life in a world where abortion is legal. But once it’s not, I think many of these same women find it hard to maintain this position if they start thinking too much. They start thinking…….I have a teen daughter. She’s very bright and my family is making financial sacrifices to endure that she gets a good education, what if the day comes when she’s been accepted into one of the best colleges in the country. Then she comes to me in August two weeks before we drive her to college and tells me that the night of her graduation party she drank too much and passed out, while she suspected something had happened to her she decided to put it out of her mind and forget it happened. But now she’s missed two periods and a home pregnancy test is positive. Or maybe she panicked and ordered something online but got caught and is now facing a felony murder charge. Or they think of the times in their own lives when a pregnancy would have derailed everything and cost her a career, a home, or a marriage. It’s easy to be pro-life when we have safe and legal abortion, medical privacy laws and clinics with back doors. It’s harder when it gets real……and that’s why so many conservative women are voting pro-choice. If you are going to advocate for personal responsibility and improving your life by making good choices, you have to be given the freedom to make those choices. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/25 "2023-11-11T20:05:07Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think it’s very easy for a woman to be pro-life in a world where abortion is legal. But once it’s not, I think many of these same women find it hard to maintain this position if they start thinking too much. I don’t think the ones who actually _are_ pro-life have any trouble maintaining their position. But I do think there’s a bigger group that will - and those are the ones who aren’t really pro-life. Or at least not extremely so. They get on the bus to the pro-life rallies because everyone else at their church /in their family does . Or they vote for the pro-life candidate because of the candidate’s other positions. For the last 50 years people who are fundamentally pro-choice didn’t have to worry about abortion access and therefore people could vote for the anti-immigration candidate even though they would ban abortion. They could vote for a candidate who is pro-business/against government regulation and not be worried that electing them would help eliminate abortion access. But now that has changed - and people who are prochoice will have to factor that into their voting decisions. And so will people who are generally opposed to abortion but don’t want doctors to refuse to treat women until they are at death’s doorstep for fear of being arrested , even when there has been a missed or incomplete miscarriage. Or who are generally opposed but don’t want women to have to carry doomed pregnancies to term. I think the Republicans might be surprised by how many people turn out not to be 100% against abortion , under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/26 "2023-11-11T20:32:16Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think it’s very easy for a woman to be pro-life in a world where abortion is legal. But once it’s not, I think many of these same women find it hard to maintain this position if they start thinking too much. I think it was at least 25 years ago that I started saying that the only way to get anti-choice people to figure out the importance of _Roe v. Wade_ was to give them what they want. Once enough of their own precious family members were made to live with the consequences of an anti-choice world, they would perhaps regain a bit of insight. I’m sorry this turned out to be true. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/27 "2023-11-11T20:44:02Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I agree with you except there’s now a flip side that didn’t really exist before. For years, Roe v. Wade was assumed to be settled law. Now that people can see that the GOP can and will mettle in reproductive rights, it may drive voters into the arms of the Democrats, where previously it might have fallen on deaf ears. As a former life-long Republican voter, I was always pro-choice. And while this sounds odd, it was because I believed abortion was pretty much a settled issue. i.e. No matter how much many of the GOP went on and on about abortion, I honestly didn’t think anything would change so the rhetoric didn’t concern me. That’s egg on my face I guess. (I abandoned the GOP prior to the overturn of Roe v. Wade.) I do think there are a good number Republicans who were in the same boat I was. And while some of them probably won’t abandon the GOP, I suspect a significant number of voters will at least vote for someone else willing to keep abortion legal. Abortion was an issue that could help the GOP os long as it was illegal, but now that they’ve got what they want, well, it’s going to hurt them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/28 "2023-11-11T20:46:33Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > That’s egg on my face I guess. ISWYDT. ---
**Author:** ![TeroSunbear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terosunbear/32/14748_2.png) [@TeroSunbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeroSunbear)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/29 "2023-11-11T21:06:16Z")
The red states will hang on to the GOP, Guns and “foreigners.” But they will have a hard time accomplishing anything in DC. Except brief pauses due to chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/30 "2023-11-11T21:21:45Z")
Just a reminder: There are (at least) six sides to the abortion issue, not two. There’s pro-life, anti-life, pro-choice, anti-choice, pro-abortion, and anti-abortion. Very few people are in the anti-life or pro-abortion camps, and they’re not regarded as mainstream. There are a few in the pro-life camp, and a somewhat larger number of anti-abortion. Most Republican elected officials, and a great many of the voters, are anti-choice. And the largest group, we’re now learning, are pro-choice. Just watch: Within ten years, some red state somewhere will start mandating abortions, at least for Certain People. And their base will eat it up, because it accords perfectly with their principles. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/31 "2023-11-12T07:29:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > This is insightful, but I could use some elaboration. Who are the anti-life and pro-abortion people? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/32 "2023-11-12T08:09:08Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Who are the anti-life and pro-abortion people? Antinatalists, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/33 "2023-11-12T10:30:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Just watch: Within ten years, some red state somewhere will start mandating abortions, at least for Certain People. And their base will eat it up, because it accords perfectly with their principles. It is indeed remarcable how being tainted by the Nazis, who copied the concept and the arguments from the USA ([cite](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/what-america-taught-the-nazis/540630/), [cite](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/04/30/how-american-racism-influenced-hitler), [cite](https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow)), has discredited the very good idea of eugenics, a truly American ideology if there ever was one: scientific, rational, racist, patronising, bigoted, easy to explain… I wonder why it has taken them so long to stage a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/34 "2023-11-12T12:42:44Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Who are the anti-life and pro-abortion people? As I said, there aren’t very many of either. [Aum Shinrikyo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo) could probably be described as anti-life. And there are some isolated nuts who believe that humans have a moral obligation to go extinct through ceasing all reproduction; they would be pro-abortion. China’s one-child policy could also be described as pro-abortion, I suppose, though that’s a very uncommon view in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/35 "2023-11-12T13:14:10Z")
Ohio Republicans have also vowed not to abide by the recent election results. And they intend to cut the state judiciary out of the decision process as well. Whether they will pay a price for their undemocratic actions a year from now remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/36 "2023-11-12T13:55:35Z")
The first thing that red states would need to do it realize that the state right to ban abortions applies to other states to allow abortion. So laws in Texas outlawing women from going to New Mexico for an abortion should be rescinded. Let’s start with that. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/37 "2023-11-12T16:07:22Z")
“Should” and right-wing views have very little overlap. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/38 "2023-11-12T16:44:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > China’s one-child policy could also be described as pro-abortion, I suppose, though that’s a very uncommon view in the US. Since 2021, it has been a [three child policy](https://thechinaproject.com/2023/10/17/chinas-three-child-policy-isnt-leading-to-surge-in-births-data-shows/) in most provinces. That still is a gross violation of reproductive freedom. The GOP points out that there are abortion restrictions in parts of Europe. Same is true in China: [Jiangxi province issued guidelines [in 2018] stipulating that women more than 14 weeks pregnant must have signed approval from three medical professionals confirming an abortion is medically necessary before any procedure.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/china-new-rules-jiangxi-province-prevent-sex-selective-abortions) For some reason, GOP politicos only mention Europe as a model for restricting reproductive freedom, never mentioning China. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/39 "2023-11-12T17:00:37Z")
The Reactionary Wacko Traitors are very big on the distinction between “freedom from” and “freedom to”. They mostly want “freedom from” other people’s “freedom to”. As they apply that to reproduction that means you’re free to have as many unwanted babies as you can pump out. But you’re not free to have fewer than that. Makes complete sense to them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935/40 "2023-11-12T17:18:13Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Ohio Republicans have also vowed not to abide by the recent election results. And they intend to cut the state judiciary out of the decision process as well. Can’t wait for them to order their paramilitary forces to arrest judges who declare their new laws unconstitutional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-and-the-future-of-the-gop/992935.md?page=3)