# Abortion clinic "Buffer zones" in Massachusetts not legal, says unanimous SCOTUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698 "2014-06-26T14:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/181 "2014-06-26T22:01:21Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > The moral issue is whether you should be allowed to impose your morals on other people. Because I don’t view abortion as immoral. Less than ideal perhaps but hardly the sort of cold blooded murder you seem to believe it is. Please address this **Hector\_St\_Clare** Just what in the fuck makes you think your morality supersedes everyone else’s? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/182 "2014-06-26T22:02:13Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > No, I’m right, and you aren’t even in the ballpark. Deaths due to car accidents are common, even though they’re a small percentage of total deaths. The same could be said for any subset of all abortions. Your logic is fucking abysmal. No, you’ve refocused the question. Deaths due to car accidents are common, in a sense – but how common is it that you, personally, talked to someone who went on to die that day in a car accident? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/183 "2014-06-26T22:02:30Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Please address this **Hector\_St\_Clare** > Just what in the fuck makes you think your morality supersedes everyone else’s? Because Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/184 "2014-06-26T22:04:15Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Please address this **Hector\_St\_Clare** > Just what in the fuck makes you think your morality supersedes everyone else’s? That’s an excellent question. I’d say that since we don’t agree on a system of morality, we should be bound by the law. You don’t agree with me; I don’t agree with you. We have a framework that allows us to promulgate law that binds both of us. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/185 "2014-06-26T22:05:26Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I didn’t say that I consider clinic protests to be effective or tasteful. they should absolutely be legal though. > > Do you want to ban all forms of political protest, or just this one ? For my part, I didn’t say I wanted to ban this form of protest. And I do not. I just consider it to have multiple negative outcomes and no real positive ones, aside, presumably, from making those who protest feel like they’ve accomplished something. A trait that tends to apply with a lot of protests, really. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/186 "2014-06-26T22:08:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, you’ve refocused the question. > > Deaths due to car accidents are common, in a sense – but how common is it that you, personally, talked to someone who went on to die that day in a car accident? No, you’re refocusing, horribly. A better question would be how many corpses from car accidents has a mortician seen today. We aren’t talking about how often I, personally, engage with raped women who wants an abortion. We’re talking about how often abortion protestors at abortion clinics engage with raped women who want abortions. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/187 "2014-06-26T22:14:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why would we need to prevent someone from calling another person a baby-killer? Why would we need to prevent neo-Nazi groups from standing in front of synagogues and yelling anti-Semitic taunts at anyone entering or leaving? I don’t claim to have a clear-cut answer to that. I do claim that basic precepts of civilized society call for intervention when such harassment becomes sufficiently egregious that the basic rights of law-abiding citizens are clearly being violated. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I don’t see it as important at all that people should be able to have abortions, and I certainly don’t have any inclination that they should do so free of guilt or shame. That’s good to know. What you need to know is that the law is more important than your opinion. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Abortion is legal right now, unfortunately, but that doesn’t mean it should be easy. Let’s take that bizarre concept of jurisprudence and run with it. Maybe abortion clinic protestors should have to pass through a minimum of three police lines before they’re allowed near the clinic, at least one of which involves a complete strip search. And then they should be yelled at. Hey, we can’t stop free speech, but that doesn’t mean it should be easy! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/188 "2014-06-26T22:15:01Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > For my part, I didn’t say I wanted to ban this form of protest. And I do not. I just consider it to have multiple negative outcomes and no real positive ones, aside, presumably, from making those who protest feel like they’ve accomplished something. > > A trait that tends to apply with a lot of protests, really. If some mothers end up not having abortions, that’s a positive outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/189 "2014-06-26T22:15:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’d say that since we don’t agree on a system of morality, we should be bound by the law. How do you convince people what the law should be? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/190 "2014-06-26T22:20:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s an excellent question. > > I’d say that since we don’t agree on a system of morality, we should be bound by the law. You don’t agree with me; I don’t agree with you. We have a framework that allows us to promulgate law that binds both of us. Shouldn’t women have complete domain over their own bodies like men do? I think of a woman’s ovaries as a sovereign country. Make whatever laws you want to after that baby is born. But until then, that unborn baby is NOT a citizen of the United States. It belongs to the sovereign domain of the mother and is outside of the reach of any United States law. This also makes that whole argument of “When does life begin?” irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/191 "2014-06-26T22:21:13Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > If some mothers end up not having abortions, that’s a positive outcome. Not if more don’t. Are you now, by the way, claiming that you think clinic protests are effective? Or is this a hypothetical? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/192 "2014-06-26T22:26:09Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Shouldn’t women have complete domain over their own bodies like men do? > > I think of a woman’s ovaries as a sovereign country. Make whatever laws you want to after that baby is born. But until then, that unborn baby is NOT a citizen of the United States. It belongs to the sovereign domain of the mother and is outside of the reach of any United States law. > > This also makes that whole argument of “When does life begin?” irrelevant. This doesn’t strike me as a particularly good argument, given that there are no circumstances under which a man would have a being the qualities of which that pro-lifers tend to value inside them. And I’d tend to suspect that, if somehow men could get pregnant, **Bricker’s** views would be entirely the same as they were for women. I’ve seen no reason to think that his views differ on men and women _because_ they are men and women and not because of an indirect specific. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/193 "2014-06-26T22:27:41Z")
Will the SCOTUS now remove the buffer zone from around their own building? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/194 "2014-06-26T22:37:20Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > It’s very simple, if there’s a legitimate medical emergency than you should have the right to have an abortion. If not, then not. > > The moral issue here isn’t whether women should be allowed to walk to buildings, its whether they should be allowed to choose to have an abortion or not. So you agree that it’s wrong to harass women for trying to enter certain buildings, and it’s a good and positive thing to do to provide support for women to enter certain buildings if someone is trying to harass/verbally obstruct them? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/195 "2014-06-26T22:38:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > This doesn’t strike me as a particularly good argument, given that there are no circumstances under which a man would have a being the qualities of which that pro-lifers tend to value inside them. > > And I’d tend to suspect that, if somehow men could get pregnant, **Bricker’s** views would be entirely the same as they were for women. I’ve seen no reason to think that his views differ on men and women _because_ they are men and women and not because of an indirect specific. LOL. if men could get pregnant, do you really think the subject of abortion would even _be_ a debate? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/196 "2014-06-26T22:38:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m sure they enjoy it. That whole smug, self righteous thing they have going. > > There’s a song titled _“They’ll Know We Are Christians By Our Love”_. > Yeah, right. I met the guy who wrote that song. He’s pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/197 "2014-06-26T22:39:59Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > If some mothers end up not having abortions, that’s a positive outcome. How many women (including rape victims and other women who do not want elective abortions) are you comfortable with having been harassed in order to convince one woman to not have an abortion? Would you harass a hundred women, ten of whom were rape victims, and 50 of whom were not in for abortions at all, in order to convince one to not have an abortion? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/198 "2014-06-26T22:40:45Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > LOL. if men could get pregnant, do you really think the subject of abortion would even _be_\* a debate? Personally, I doubt it very much, at least to the same extent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/199 "2014-06-26T23:14:17Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Shouldn’t women have complete domain over their own bodies like men do? > > I think of a woman’s ovaries as a sovereign country. Make whatever laws you want to after that baby is born. But until then, that unborn baby is NOT a citizen of the United States. It belongs to the sovereign domain of the mother and is outside of the reach of any United States law. > > This also makes that whole argument of “When does life begin?” irrelevant. No, I don’t agree that should be the law. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/200 "2014-06-26T23:16:10Z")
Why are anti-trespassing laws not good enough to keep unwanted people off of the property of these clinics? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=11)