# Abortion clinic "Buffer zones" in Massachusetts not legal, says unanimous SCOTUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698 "2014-06-26T14:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/321 "2014-06-27T16:15:53Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Self-defence is, sometimes, an acceptable reason for killing. Do you follow the tenets set forth in Genesis 3:16? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/322 "2014-06-27T16:16:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That was the first recent one I found that asked a clear question on the political (not moral) question of abortion – in this case, does one call oneself pro-choice or pro-life. I don’t really think self-labeling questions are great. The number of people who call themselves ‘pro-life’ is greater than the number who would actually like to see Roe overturned, or who vote for tighter abortion laws. Most of the other polls I linked to ask about, for example, ‘do you think abortion should be legal most of the time, in only a few cases, always, or never’, etc., which is a more meaningful question (in my view). Regardless, the Gallup poll, while one of the more recent, is still a big outlier, and I want to see the next poll before I’m convinced this is evidence of a trend. I’ll try to dig up some actual published studies on abortion attitudes and see if they include a breakdown by sex. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/323 "2014-06-27T16:17:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Friend **Hector** , this position continues to perplex me. > > On the one hand, you have made it perfectly clear that you consider abortion to be murder. Period. > > On the other, you allow that under some circumstances, murder is acceptable. > I hope you can grok my confusion here. Why have you decided that in cases of “serious medical threat to the mother,” the murder of the unborn is something you support? Self defence- when you kill someone who’s posing a sufficiently great threat to your life and limb, it isn’t usually considered murder. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/324 "2014-06-27T16:20:38Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The number of people who call themselves ‘pro-life’ is greater than the number who would actually like to see Roe overturned, or who vote for tighter abortion laws. That’s the one thing you’ve written that happens to be true. There is little support for most anti-abortion laws even by people who would never have one. Anti-abortionists are kidding themselves when they pretend otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/325 "2014-06-27T16:21:19Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I don’t really think self-labeling questions are great. When you’re asking about the politics of it, then it’s the best fit, from what I found. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/326 "2014-06-27T16:21:31Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Self-defence is, sometimes, an acceptable reason for killing. That has to be the strangest usage if self-defense I’ve ever encountered. What an odd religious loophole to glom onto. But that said, are you going to join us in the thread specifically dedicated to you, so that we may enjoy the depths of your views more fully? Or will we only see you in the inviolable confines of GD? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/327 "2014-06-27T17:00:37Z")
I’m a little surprised that nobody has tried suing really obnoxious protestors for intentional infliction of emotional distress. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/328 "2014-06-27T17:05:34Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > That has to be the strangest usage if self-defense I’ve ever encountered. What an odd religious loophole to glom onto. It really isn’t. When I read these debates it’s often clear that some people aren’t even trying to understand the opposing view. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/329 "2014-06-27T17:20:48Z")
It’s often clear that some people aren’t even trying to understand their \*own \*view. Self-defense? The fetus can ask a doctor to save it from that bad ol’ mommy it’s trapped inside? And it has a right to get a gun in case the law won’t protect it, too, right? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/330 "2014-06-27T17:24:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Self-defense? The fetus can ask a doctor to save it from that bad ol’ mommy it’s trapped inside? And it has a right to get a gun in case the law won’t protect it, too, right? He’s saying it’s self defense for the mother. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/331 "2014-06-27T17:28:49Z")
If you know what he’s saying, you’re doing better at this than me. Better than him too, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/332 "2014-06-27T17:32:30Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It really isn’t. When I read these debates it’s often clear that some people aren’t even trying to understand the opposing view. Considering it seems we’re typically on opposite sides of any viewpoint, I suppose we’ll have to add this one as well and agree to disagree. Because although I do understand that bringing a child to term will cause death to the mother in this situation, I’d in no way categorize that as self-defense. Perhaps I hinge that on intentional desire to harm, but what’s taking place _biologically_, doesn’t fit that definition. Obviously, your mileage varies. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/333 "2014-06-27T17:36:23Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Not when the life of another person is at stake. A fetus isn’t a person. Also, and acorn isn’t a tree, and a pile of lumber isn’t a house. Asserting that a fetus is a person, is often done for religious reasons. And you shouldn’t get to force others to live by your religious feelings. Say that a religion believes that the souls of our ancestors inhabit the bodies of cows. Do you think that we should not eat cows because those religious people think so? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/334 "2014-06-27T17:38:40Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Self defence- when you kill someone who’s posing a sufficiently great threat to your life and limb, it isn’t usually considered murder. In the state I live in defense of property is also considered a legally acceptable reason to use deadly force also. So according to your reasoning, a man who does not want to pay child support could kidnap a woman and have an abortion performed on her against her will in the course of defending his property and it would all be legal (or at least a minor kidnapping and restraint charge). Wow, you’re reaching the point where you agree with me. Now please extend the right to defend one’s financial property to the woman also. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/335 "2014-06-27T17:43:51Z")
Nitpick: defense of _real_ property may be a legally acceptable basis to use deadly force. Defense of chattels is not, in any US jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/336 "2014-06-27T17:52:29Z")
Somebody give Hector a miniature American flag, already. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/337 "2014-06-27T18:00:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s often clear that some people aren’t even trying to understand their \*own \*view. > > Self-defense? The fetus can ask a doctor to save it from that bad ol’ mommy it’s trapped inside? And it has a right to get a gun in case the law won’t protect it, too, right? Thanks for the perfect demonstration of my point. eta: and faithfool, I am pro-choice. I don’t really remember disagreeing with you that often, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/338 "2014-06-27T18:30:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Somebody give Hector a miniature American flag, already. _slow clap_ ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/339 "2014-06-27T18:32:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Thanks for the perfect demonstration of my point. > > eta: and faithfool, I am pro-choice. I don’t really remember disagreeing with you that often, honestly. Sorry then, **Carnal**. Perhaps I’m thinking of someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/340 "2014-06-27T19:25:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m a little surprised that nobody has tried suing really obnoxious protestors for intentional infliction of emotional distress. Snyder v. Phelps, dude. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=18)