# Abortion clinic "Buffer zones" in Massachusetts not legal, says unanimous SCOTUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698 "2014-06-26T14:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/621 "2014-07-10T22:48:35Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Quite a bit of statistical sleight-of-hand going on here, I’d say. Yes, and I wish you’d stop it. To repeat again: I came into the thread in response to a comment asking for a characterization of “ **the majority of those that protest abortion providers** ,” and gave anecdotal evidence that “ **the majority of those that protest abortion providers** ,” are in fact quite civil. You responded with references to anti-abortion violence, and I pointed out that that it strained credulity to attribute such violence to “ **the majority of those that protest abortion providers**.” If you want to present evidence that “ **the majority of those that protest abortion providers** ,” are violent or even aggressive, uncivil, etc., that would be a meaningful retort. Virtually everything you’ve posted is, however, unrelated to what I was talking about, which was, if you have forgotten, “ **the majority of those that protest abortion providers**.” > [@](#): > > I think I’ve provided sufficient links to support the idea that there is a disturbing segment of anti-abortion activists who are indisputably domestic terrorists. And those links would be useful if there was anyone disputing the point. There isn’t, and never was. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/622 "2014-07-11T13:58:11Z")
Wait a minute. Anti-abortion people react to violence on their side by saying “We’re not all violent,” yet when I mention they say “There’s no doctors in there,” Bricker tells the story of ONE non-MD who gave a woman an abortion pill? ONE person does not negate the incredibly stupid statement “There’s no doctors in there.” And the anti-abortion group still pushes the idea “abortion causes breast cancer” which has been totally disproven, and let’s not forget the idea it may give men [“TEH GAY”](http://www.priestsforlife.org/postabortion/fathersandabortion.htm) > [@](#): > > Men may suffer from a form of sexual dysfunction such as impotency. Some become addicted to pornography and masturbation - allowing them to experience sexual gratification while maintaining control. Some men experiment with homosexuality because it allows them to have a “successful” sexual relationship with no commitment and no worry of pregnancy That statement goes from ridiculousness to utter and total, side-splitting lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/623 "2014-07-11T14:01:07Z")
My best friend’s brother said there is no anti-abortion violence. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/624 "2014-07-11T14:20:46Z")
Okay, I’m convinced. I’m now going to be a radical anti-abortion protestor. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/625 "2014-07-11T16:53:55Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Wait a minute. Anti-abortion people react to violence on their side by saying “We’re not all violent,” yet when I mention they say “There’s no doctors in there,” Bricker tells the story of ONE non-MD who gave a woman an abortion pill? > > ONE person does not negate the incredibly stupid statement “There’s no doctors in there.” So was the 9-11 ceremony you mention the one reported on in the link I gave? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/626 "2014-07-11T16:59:13Z")
> [@furt](#): > > To repeat again: I came into the thread in response to a comment asking for a characterization of “ **the majority of those that protest abortion providers** ” I’m not debating what motivated you to come in to the thread, I’m debating the implication of [what you actually said](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17527147&postcount=587): “I’ve gone to about a dozen abortion-clinic protests over the years … and I **never** saw them be hostile or aggressive … they were very careful to follow all the standard rules for civil disobedience, including being **unfailingly civil** … I’ve **never** heard anyone express anything but sympathy and concern for the women choosing to abort. Speakers frequently emphasize the need for activists to be **courteous, gentle and wise**.” Your own anecdote cites obnoxious behavior so we can dispense with “unfailingly civil” right there, and **Trinopus** cites his own [anecdotal observations of criminal and violent behavior](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17527748&postcount=591). The thousands of incidents of violence and property damage that I cited **refute the absolutism implied by your anecodotes**. That’s it, no more, no less. For some reason that remains unclear, you decided to take out your calculator and regale us with percentages. Try telling the families of doctors David Gunn, John Britton, Barnett Slepian, or George Tiller that anti-abortionists are “ **never** hostile or aggressive” and “ **unfailingly** civil”. Before he was shot Tiller had been put on “wanted dead or alive” posters that were distributed by the anti-abortionists at “Operation Rescue”, and had been demonized as “Tiller the baby killer” by Bill O’Reilly on Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/627 "2014-07-11T19:06:06Z")
:rolleyes: Yes, well, “unfailingly,” should have said, “very nearly unfailingly.” I was operating under the assumption that nobody would conclude that I was actually denying that any protesters were ever, never, not even once confrontational, especially since the entire thread was about exactly such people, since nobody over the age of twelve is unaware of incidents like Tiller, and since the only post I responded to and quoted was about the nature of of “the majority.” In the same spirit of rigorous accuracy, could you please flesh out what > [@](#): > > the cohort of anti-abortionists, let’s face it, does not have a very good statistical track record means, precisely? Is this an “even one murder mars the whole group” kind of deal, or is that track record to be compared with other groups? Would you similarly say that “the cohort of Muslims, let’s face it, does not have a very good statistical track record?” ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/628 "2014-07-11T19:22:02Z")
dp ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/629 "2014-07-14T13:48:58Z")
In his book “Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments” rabid Randy Alcorn states (paraphrased) “Blaming the entire pro-life movement for the actions of a few radical members is like blaming the entire anti-slavery movement because some members burned slave owners’ crops.” Uh, Randy…you are comparing shooting and killing people to burning crops? And just when is Randy Alcorn going to pay the $8,200,000 he owes to a clinic that won a lawsuit against him. Oh, right he did what OJ did–hid all his assets rather than pay. Alcorn is obviously above the law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/630 "2014-07-14T16:36:54Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Only if there is a good chance they were there. The Englewood 9/11 ceremony happened in my hometown, and I go to it every year. > [@Bricker](#): > > Is it the ceremony mentioned in this story? > > [http://www.northjersey.com/news/mourners-gather-in-englewood-for-9-11-ceremony-1.256885](http://www.northjersey.com/news/mourners-gather-in-englewood-for-9-11-ceremony-1.256885) Annie, is the annual ceremony you were speaking of the one mentioned in that link? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/631 "2014-07-14T21:01:55Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > In his book “Pro-Life Answers to Pro-Choice Arguments” rabid Randy Alcorn states (paraphrased) “Blaming the entire pro-life movement for the actions of a few radical members is like blaming the entire anti-slavery movement because some members burned slave owners’ crops.” Uh, Randy…you are comparing shooting and killing people to burning crops? To be fair, no, he isn’t. He’s comparing groups of people and standards of evidence, levels of confidence, rules of proof, etc. For a more straight-up comparison, he might have said it’s like blaming the entire environmentalist movement for Ted Kaczynski. He’s even a little right. Most pro-life activists aren’t violent. A few have been, and they’re a serious danger to our society. This is why the Supreme Court’s decision was ill-conceived. It removes a level of protection we need against the crazies. > [@](#): > > And just when is Randy Alcorn going to pay the $8,200,000 he owes to a clinic that won a lawsuit against him. Oh, right he did what OJ did–hid all his assets rather than pay. Alcorn is obviously above the law. I’ve felt for a long time that the financial practices of the organized pro-life movement – such as holding on to donation checks without cashing them, so as to have no attachable assets – is evidence of criminal financial fraud. Deliberately manipulating bookkeeping to produce a spurious immunity to civil suits is criminal conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/632 "2014-07-15T13:34:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Annie, is the annual ceremony you were speaking of the one mentioned in that link? That’s it, but the one that was disrupted was held on a Saturday, the day the nastiest anti-abortion protestors come out. And they did SCREAM over the 90 minute ceremony. In the Planned Parenthood rally, their supporters spoke first and again the protestors SCREAMED over them. When those impolite people got their turn to speak, the supporters were absolutely silent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/633 "2014-07-15T13:42:59Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > That’s it, but the one that was disrupted was held on a Saturday, the day the nastiest anti-abortion protestors come out. And they did SCREAM over the 90 minute ceremony. So, this would have been 2004 or 2010? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/634 "2014-07-15T13:50:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, this would have been 2004 or 2010? 1. And how unspeakably rude is it to scream over a 9/11 ceremony? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/635 "2014-07-15T13:54:59Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > 1. And how unspeakably rude is it to scream over a 9/11 ceremony? Extremely, unspeakably rude. I don’t even understand the connection. What in the world does 9/11 have to do with abortion? So, just to be sure, this was the same year that singer/songwriter Johnny Bulford wrote a song specifically for the organization and named it ‘Remember the Brave’ – and performed it live? Or am I confusing that with some other event? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/636 "2014-07-15T14:06:53Z")
Englewood’s 9/11 memorial is located at their library, right across the street from the women’s health center. That is the only connection. Saturday brings out the total anti-abortion lunatics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=31)