# Abortion clinic "Buffer zones" in Massachusetts not legal, says unanimous SCOTUS **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698 "2014-06-26T14:58:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/61 "2014-06-26T18:36:42Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Interestingly enough, would that include the fetus in utero? Well, I don’t think women should have to shoot fetuses, given that safer methods exist. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/62 "2014-06-26T18:40:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Anecdote: twenty-odd years ago, a good friend of mine was outside an abortion clinic, and a young woman passed him; he asked her to reconsider what she was doing. She said angrily to him, “Yeah, you’re here now, but where will you be when the baby is born and I can’t take care of it because I have no money? If you’re so serious about this, why don’t you take this baby?” > > He said, “Let me call my wife.” > > Not only did he and his wife adopt the baby, but they kept her mother in her life, and all three of them recently watched that young woman graduate from college. > > One starfish. Heartwarming story, and one that would have been forbidden under the law that the Court just struck down. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/63 "2014-06-26T18:41:59Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Heartwarming story, and one that would have been forbidden under the law that the Court just struck down. Unless the woman had simply chosen to walk over to the protester. But women can’t be trusted with that kind of power, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/64 "2014-06-26T18:42:43Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Heartwarming story, and one that would have been forbidden under the law that the Court just struck down. A heartwarming second-hand anecdote on the internet. But anyway, I’m less concerned with the legality of the protests and more curious about your thoughts about their morality – do you believe it’s a moral thing to do to shout “baby killer!” into the face of a young woman who may have been raped and/or may not be seeking an elective abortion? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/65 "2014-06-26T18:42:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Anecdote: twenty-odd years ago, a good friend of mine was outside an abortion clinic, and a young woman passed him; he asked her to reconsider what she was doing. She said angrily to him, “Yeah, you’re here now, but where will you be when the baby is born and I can’t take care of it because I have no money? If you’re so serious about this, why don’t you take this baby?” > > He said, “Let me call my wife.” > > Not only did he and his wife adopt the baby, but they kept her mother in her life, and all three of them recently watched that young woman graduate from college. > > One starfish. Inspirational. I hereby swear to do my part by tossing every beached fetus I find back into the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/66 "2014-06-26T18:43:18Z")
> [@Daddypants](#): > > Hmmmm… let see how far the free speech thing goes. As repugnant as I find the Westboro Baptist Church, they should immediately sue to get grave side access for their protests. Wait, what? Are you comparing ‘having an abortion’ to ‘having a funeral’? Funerals are supposed to be respectful and solemn occasions that honour the deceased and their relatives, protests of any kind are inappropriate and shouldn’t be allowed. An abortion clinic is not a grave site. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/67 "2014-06-26T18:47:23Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Funerals are supposed to be respectful and solemn occasions that honour the deceased and their relatives, protests of any kind are inappropriate and shouldn’t be allowed. An abortion clinic is not a grave site. In other words, unlike the exercise of a Constitutionally protected right to make decisions about your health care, funerals are _important_. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/68 "2014-06-26T18:47:34Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > An abortion clinic is not a grave site. This much I agree with, as there are no dead humans there. True, an abortion clinic is not a grave site. Neither is it a place to harrass people. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/69 "2014-06-26T18:47:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Okay, well we should make sure that Stand Your Ground laws are enacted everywhere, so that these women can carry firearms and shoot anyone who puts them in fear for their safety. Yeah it would be interesting to see how the right would spin it if patients and doctors pulling out guns and telling the protesters to get the hell out of their way. Maybe they would suddenly decide that there were limits on the second amendment. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/70 "2014-06-26T18:48:31Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Wait, what? > > Are you comparing ‘having an abortion’ to ‘having a funeral’? We’re talking about ‘walking from car to clinic’, not ‘having an abortion’. Many of the women being yelled at and challenged are not there for an elective abortion. It’s legal, but very morally wrong to shout at, challenge, or otherwise attempt to distract or shame women from walking down whatever street they choose and entering whatever building they choose. It doesn’t matter what street, or what building – it’s morally wrong to do these things. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/71 "2014-06-26T18:51:54Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’m a little more concerned about the lives of the unborn children that the mothers are planning to kill, then about the feelings of the mothers. Just a little. > > Sorry, not sorry. A fetus isn’t a baby. Your equating them is based on unsupportable religious beliefs. Your position would be analogous to supporting a cult screaming at people entering a McDonalds because they believe Chicken McNuggets contain the spirits of the recently dead. That said, free speech is a good thing, even though angry, misguided people will use it to hurt others needlessly. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/72 "2014-06-26T18:54:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And apparently, don’t get raped, don’t go to women’s medical clinics for other reasons, don’t have a non-elective abortion, etc. > > I wonder what kind of person can yell “baby killer” into the face of complete strangers (who are usually young women) who may have been raped, and/or may not be contemplating abortion at all. Your continual mentioning of the young women who might have been raped suggests to me you believe this to be a significant possibility. But less than one-half of one percent of abortions are procured as a result of rape. Were you aware of this? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/73 "2014-06-26T18:55:29Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Wait, what? > > Are you comparing ‘having an abortion’ to ‘having a funeral’? > > Funerals are supposed to be respectful and solemn occasions that honour the deceased and their relatives, protests of any kind are inappropriate and shouldn’t be allowed. An abortion clinic is not a grave site. But some are in the frame of mind that believes that the nation will be destroyed by its love of fags and that only by harassing people at funerals this can be avoided. If they are correct than their actions are saving hundreds of millions of lives. Why should their view be given any less credence than your view that abortion clinics kill babies? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/74 "2014-06-26T18:57:06Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > True, an abortion clinic is not a grave site. Neither is it a place to harrass people. And if you take the reverse position, why is someone walking into a clinic fair game for protests while someone in a cemetery not? A person who is going for a checkup or a medical procedure hasn’t asked for public comment any more than someone burying a relative. > [@Bricker](#): > > Your continual mentioning of the young women who might have been raped suggests to me you believe this to be a significant possibility. > > But less than one-half of one percent of abortions are procured as a result of rape. > > Were you aware of this? So you’ve confirmed it happens, but he should stop posting about it. That makes as much sense as screaming at people walking into a clinic because some of them might be having abortions. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/75 "2014-06-26T19:01:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If you don’t know if they’re effective, then why did you mention unborn children? How is that relevant to whether women (who may or may not have been raped, and who may or may not be seeking an abortion) going for medical care should have “baby killer” shouted in their face? People keep repeating this as if this is the norm or something, but I am exceptionally skeptical. 1. Is there any evidence that the plaintiffs in this case engaged in such behavior? 2. Is there anything to indicate that this would be anything other that extreme behavior, no more characteristic of the Pro-Life movement than Act-Up was typical of the gay rights movement? I mean, I personally have seen gay-rights protesters disrupt church services and scream epithets at little old ladies; and of course groups like Act-Up did far worse. It would be dishonest, however, to act as if groups like that were typical of gay-rights supporters. Should the behavior of a handful of extremists eliminate the rights of the mainstream? ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/76 "2014-06-26T19:01:26Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Wait, what? > > Are you comparing ‘having an abortion’ to ‘having a funeral’? > > Funerals are supposed to be respectful and solemn occasions that honour the deceased and their relatives, protests of any kind are inappropriate and shouldn’t be allowed. An abortion clinic is not a grave site. No, I’m comparing reasons for protesting, and why they are allowed some places and not others. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/77 "2014-06-26T19:01:26Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Wait, what? > > Are you comparing ‘having an abortion’ to ‘having a funeral’? No, an abortion actually _matters_. You could throw dead people into the Grand Canyon and it wouldn’t make much of a difference. Funerals are cultural gatherings that have symbolic meaning. An abortion has real, daily impact on a family for the rest of their lives. If you can’t afford another child, that abortion makes your life, and the lives of those around you better. > [@](#): > > Funerals are supposed to be respectful and solemn occasions that honour the deceased and their relatives, protests of any kind are inappropriate and shouldn’t be allowed. An abortion clinic is not a grave site. That is an assertion based on nothing more than your personal preference. Watch, “Abortions are supposed to be a respectful and solemn occasions that honor the tough decision the woman is making. Protests of any kind are inappropriate and shouldn’t be allowed.” In other words, you’re demanding that your position be elevated based on nothing but personal preference. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/78 "2014-06-26T19:04:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s for wimps. Better to use the regulatory system to shut down clinics, attack their funding, and scare the shit out of women and doctors. The Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has put the legality of abortion outside of the political process. It does not matter if you elect a pro-life governor and legislature, or if your congressman and senators are pro-life. The only way to use laws to restrict abortions are to wait for a justice to die and hope the next one has some respect for the constitution. Until then there is nothing that can be done. We see what happens when people are denied the chance to participate in the democratic process. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/79 "2014-06-26T19:08:19Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has put the legality of abortion outside of the political process. It does not matter if you elect a pro-life governor and legislature, or if your congressman and senators are pro-life. The only way to use laws to restrict abortions are to wait for a justice to die and hope the next one has some respect for the constitution. Until then there is nothing that can be done. > We see what happens when people are denied the chance to participate in the democratic process. The Supreme Court held that the people did not have the right to enact laws that ban abortion with differing limits for each trimester. Just as you cannot pass a law to ban me from going to church, you cannot pass a law that bans abortion. There is still the democratic process of trying to pass a constitutional amendment, so one cannot claim that the people are denied the chance to participate. It’s just that some choose to do so in a much more civilized manner than others. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698/80 "2014-06-26T19:09:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your continual mentioning of the young women who might have been raped suggests to me you believe this to be a significant possibility. > > But less than one-half of one percent of abortions are procured as a result of rape. > > Were you aware of this? Cite? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-buffer-zones-in-massachusetts-not-legal-says-unanimous-scotus/691698.md?page=5)