# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 102
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2021 "2011-05-22T18:49:12Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > A negative doesn’t need proof! To say Cinderella doesn’t exist needs no proof, the same as about the word soul. What happens to life then when it leaves the body, that is the defination of death! You can’t prove there isn’t a soul. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2022 "2011-05-22T18:54:20Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > In situations where the mother’s life is at risk the pregnancy must be ended because the baby may die anyways in that kind of an environment and the mother cannot expect to give up her life own life to save the child. Why? Why do you value the mothers life over the fetus’ when your argument appears to be based on full humanity of the fetus, and complete innocence of the fetus? If there is a situation where absent any action I will die, and you have a chance of surviving, or if I kill you, I will survive, would you think it is acceptable for me to kill you? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2023 "2011-05-22T18:54:22Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Now fuck off. > > 😃 > [@](#): > > Restricted language in the Pit > > * * * > > The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. > > cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper > motherfucker > cocksucker > fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die > suck/lick my dick/cock and variants [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) Please do not tell \*\*classyladyhp \*\*to fuck off. It’s against the rules. No warning issued. **Gfaptor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2024 "2011-05-22T19:33:09Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Why? > > Why do you value the mothers life over the fetus’ when your argument appears to be based on full humanity of the fetus, and complete innocence of the fetus? > > If there is a situation where absent any action I will die, and you have a chance of surviving, or if I kill you, I will survive, would you think it is acceptable for me to kill you? The death of the fetus is an unintended consequence of saving the mother. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2025 "2011-05-22T19:34:40Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Your head has more holes than a colander. I do have the moral highground here. No, you don’t. You are debating like a retarded howler monkey, and your attempts to claim the moral high ground (by talking early in the thread about how you didn’t need to insult people, and talking about how much better you are) are belied by your constant personal attacks. Oh, forgot to mention that you’re so retarded that you can’t tell the difference between attacks on your arguments and attacks on your person. Hint, my original post was the former, this post is the latter. > [@](#): > > Not my fault if you were raised wihtout morals and values. My very, very Catholic and pro-life parents, for the record, think you’re an idiot too. Then again, my mom takes the road you SHOULD take (“Abortion is wrong. I don’t need to logically defend that position”) and my dad successfully takes the roads that you and OMG are trying and failing to take (“Based on my beliefs X and Y, I think abortion is wrong. I recognize that obligates me to also take position Z if my beliefs are to be consistent, but fortuantely I HAVE taken position Z.”) What you are doing, and have been doing all thread, is “Abortion is wrong based on my belief X.” And when someone tells you that X implies you also take position A that you don’t like, you say “But I think abortion is wrong based on belief Y.” And when someone tells you that Y implies you also take position B that you don’t like, you say “But I think abortion is wrong based on belief Z, and you’re a meanie.” And when someone asks you if you are actually taking positions X, Y, or Z, you say “Abortion’s wrong, at least I’m moral, ad hominem!” ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2026 "2011-05-22T19:39:30Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > The death of the fetus is an unintended consequence of saving the mother. And your death would be an unintended consequence of saving my life in my scenario. Bottom line is you have shown repeatedly you don’t view fetuses as having full human rights. You don’t support treating abortion as equivalent to murder. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2027 "2011-05-22T20:09:15Z")
Meh, I’ve been here 10 years. I like **Kambuckta** for lots of reasons, based on years of reading her interesting posts. Can’t say I’m that fond of **CLHP** - mostly because anytime I think we’re about to have fun, she takes her ball and goes home. That, and she can’t recognise humour, irony or sarcasm, and has used her short time here to basically annoy and insult people. **CLHP** - this is a board where the majority of posters are intelligent, well-read, left-leaning, libertarian, atheists or agnostics. Sure, some of us are conservative or religious, and some are not so smart or well-read, but they are a minority- and we love some of them a lot. This board may not be a good fit for you if you don’t enjoy your beliefs and opinions being challenged regularly and mercilessly. If you don’t like the tone and language in this thread, you could choose to stay in Cafe Society and MPSIMS and out of GD and the Pit in the future. Or, what **kambuckta** said, without the swear. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2028 "2011-05-22T23:17:24Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Same goes for you. NOT ONE of the anti-lifers/pro-abortionists on this thread has managed to convince me that killing your own child is A ok. Hopefully one day they will see the error of their ways. Oh, \please.\ Assuming you’re not a troll–and it’s a big assumption—a pro-death, anti-life person like you won’t ever be convinced. You just lke to play games and call people murderers while you get off on self-righteously telling women to keep their legs closed and calling fetuses ‘children’ while reducing other women to incubators. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2029 "2011-05-23T00:09:01Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Oh, \please.\ Assuming you’re not a troll–and it’s a big assumption—a pro-death, anti-life person like you won’t ever be convinced. You just lke to play games and call people murderers while you get off on self-righteously telling women to keep their legs closed and calling fetuses ‘children’ while reducing other women to incubators. Oh shut up will you?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2030 "2011-05-23T00:11:16Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Meh, I’ve been here 10 years. > I like **Kambuckta** for lots of reasons, based on years of reading her interesting posts. > > Can’t say I’m that fond of **CLHP** - mostly because anytime I think we’re about to have fun, she takes her ball and goes home. > > That, and she can’t recognise humour, irony or sarcasm, and has used her short time here to basically annoy and insult people. > > **CLHP** - this is a board where the majority of posters are intelligent, well-read, left-leaning, libertarian, atheists or agnostics. Sure, some of us are conservative or religious, and some are not so smart or well-read, but they are a minority- and we love some of them a lot. > > This board may not be a good fit for you if you don’t enjoy your beliefs and opinions being challenged regularly and mercilessly. > > If you don’t like the tone and language in this thread, you could choose to stay in Cafe Society and MPSIMS and out of GD and the Pit in the future. > > Or, what **kambuckta** said, without the swear. You are self-righteous. Take you condescension and shove it. You can’t tell me where to post, what to post, how to feel. I already assumed that most of the pro-choicers here are atheists.. You can’t support abortion and still believe in God. I have not seen an ounce of intelligence on this thread whatsoever by any of the pro-choicers. Most of you think you are far more ntelligent than you really are. Do you guys repeat how intelligent you are to yourselves everyday when you look in the mirror. If you say it enough times to yourselves do you actually believe it. Once again abortion cannot be justified. It is murder plain and simple. Try and rationalize it as many ways as you can to make your conscience feel better. Before this thread I was not a member of any pro-life groups and never picketed at abortion clinics. I’d like to thank you all for changing my mind. I will fight for the lives of the innocent children. I cannot wait until abortion is eliminated in this society and it becomes illegal. Years from now people will look back on out society and will be shocked at the barbaric and ruthless killing of innocent children. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2031 "2011-05-23T00:22:42Z")
All of the pro-choicers believe they are more intelligent than they really are. If you look in the mirror everyday and tell yourselves you are intelligent do you eventually believe it? Before I posted on this thread I had never been part of any pro-life groups or picketed at abortion clinics. Thanks to all of the pro-choicers on this thread I will in the future. I will fight for the lives of innocent children. I take comfort in knowing that one day abortion will be eliminated in this society and will be made illegal. One day people will look back at how we aborted innocent children for stupid, selfish reasons and they will be shocked and horrified that this kind of barbaric act took even took place on Earth. Women, take fucking responsibility for your actions. By your actions you created a human being entirely dependent on you and you have the responsibility to care for it and nurture it. Stop killing your own children. Your own flesh and blood. Please. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2032 "2011-05-23T00:25:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > My very, very Catholic and pro-life parents, for the record, think you’re an idiot too. They must be so proud of you:rolleyes: I don’t give a flying fuck what your moronic parents think of me. I don’t give a shit if an idiot calls me an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2033 "2011-05-23T00:36:14Z")
I just saw classy posting in a GQ thread about the “morning after” pill. Hope the guy doesn’t shit in that thread the way he has over in this one. The post itself wasn’t hateful, the way the kid is over here. But that could change. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2034 "2011-05-23T00:43:14Z")
I know, I know…I said I’d quit. I also can’t seem to stop biting my nails either, sigh. But this was too good to pass up. So, only people who don’t believe in God support abortion? Well, here is a summary from [Religioustolerance.org](http://Religioustolerance.org) outlining the Jewish persepctive (in general; there is no definitive authority in Judaism). This is from th elink I posted earlier, that was carefully ignored. So what is it? Jews don’t count? We’re not moral enough for you? You do not have a hot-line to religious wisdom or truth. [quote=] Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "…a baby…becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a ‘partial life.’ " 5 In the case of a “feet-first” delivery, it happens when most of the fetal body is outside the mother’s body. Jewish beliefs and practice not neatly match either the “pro-life” nor the “pro-choice” points of view. The general principles of modern-day Judaism are that: The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life. It gains “full human status at birth only.” 2 Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus. Abortions are permitted to save the mother’s life or health. With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women. “…each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law.” 5 [/quote] > [@](#): > > Political aspects of abortion access: > > Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform Judaism are formally opposed to government regulation of abortion. They feel that the decision should rest with the woman, her husband, doctor and clergyperson. Some Orthodox authorities agree with this stance. > > All recognize that the decision to have an abortion is a difficult one, and is not to be undertaken without considerable thought. > [@](#): > > Rulings of Jewish Authorities > An abortion would be permissible if the woman was suicidal because of her pregnancy. > > ``` > Jewish authorities differed in a case where a continued pregnancy would leave the mother permanently deaf. She obtained permission for an abortion from the Chief Rabbi of Israel. > > ``` > > Many Jewish authorities permit abortion in the case of a pregnancy resulting from a rape, if needed in order save her great mental anguish. > > Most authorities do not permit abortion in the event that the fetus is genetically defective or will probably pick up a disease from its mother. The rationale is that even though the child will be malformed, disabled, or diseased, it would still be formed in the image of the creator. Rabbi Eliezar Waldenberg is one authority who believes otherwise. He “allows first trimester abortion of a fetus which would be born with a deformity that would cause it to suffer, and termination of a fetus with a lethal fetal defect such as Tay Sachs up to the end of the second trimester of gestation.” 3 > > An abortion is sometimes permitted if the woman suffers great emotional pain about the birth of a child who will experience health problems. > > ``` > One case involved a woman who becomes pregnant while nursing a child. Her milk supply would dry up. If the child is allergic to all other forms of nutrition except for its mother's milk, then it would starve. An abortion would be permitted in this case. An abortion of the fetus, a potential person, would be justified to save the life of the child, an actual person. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2035 "2011-05-23T00:51:34Z")
Jesus christ, I leave for one wedding over one weekend and you guys keep feeding this troll for _41 goddamn pages_?? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2036 "2011-05-23T00:55:37Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Ham-fisted dodge? I need more info. When that info is provided I shall respond. Mind your own business. > [@](#): > > **Mind your own business.** God, you’re such a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2037 "2011-05-23T00:55:40Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Jesus christ, I leave for one wedding over one weekend and you guys keep feeding this troll for _41 goddamn pages_?? :hangs head in shame: I know. Even after I promised I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2038 "2011-05-23T00:58:07Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > . > Women, take fucking responsibility for your actions. By your actions you created a human being entirely dependent on you and you have the responsibility to care for it and nurture it. Stop killing your own children. Your own flesh and blood. Please. Wow. Women are getting preggo all by themselves? I guess you rode a _reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly_ short bus. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2039 "2011-05-23T01:01:36Z")
Back to the actual SUBJECT if this thread. Someone has to do it: Suppose a genetic marker for homosexuality is found, and a test is devised for this, and couples begin to abort fetuses with this marker. Should this practice be made illegal? If so, then why not sex-selection abortions also? And why not abortions for handicaps? But if some abortions are wrong and should be illegal, this implies that abortion is not in every case to be allowed simply because it was decided upon by the mother. But then aren’t there also other reasons for abortion that are clearly unacceptable? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/2040 "2011-05-23T01:03:15Z")
Why, that’s the most original argument against pro-choicers I’ve ever heard! Everyone gather 'round and see what she’s come up with! Brava! Brava! No, you’re still a fucking retard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=101) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=103)