# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/221 "2011-05-07T00:36:42Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > As previously said: it’s also a surgical technique, which inherently carries risks over and above that of birth control, plan B, etc. Reason enough to want to minimize it in favor of medical remedies. Yeah, get back to me when any other medical procedure gets treated the same as this one, then we’ll talk. And as for calling them pro-life, they’re not, I won’t, and when they actually start caring about improving lives instead of ruining and controlling those of others, then I might consider it. Until then they’re not pro life, they’re anti-choice and they can suck it if they don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/222 "2011-05-07T00:44:26Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > I’ve protested the PP here on Liberty Avenue once or twice, and I’ve always found it to have been a rather peaceful endeavor, on both sides. But Pittsburghers tend to be a pretty sanguine lot all around, when it’s not playoff season. > > At worst, I was grimaced-at by what appeared to be one of the aforementioned gentleman averse to the prospect of child support, who was hurrying his visibly-disconcerted “friend” into the building. Considering it’s right down from the bus stop, you probably pissed off a lot of people on their way to work as well, by standing in their way. (Seriously, how do you manage to protest there? You’d be standing on the middle of the sidewalk?) Of course, it never occurred to you he was taking the girl in for a pap smear, and had to deal with some idiot who was standing there being a judgmental prick. I think the next time I’m downtown, I’m going to go into PP and grab some pamphlets. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/223 "2011-05-07T01:30:27Z")
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: every time we have a thread like this, I want to run right out and have an abortion. And I’m not even pregnant. **Little Bird** , that’s awesome!!! **Beniamino** , you know, it’s not like someone really WANTS to go out and have an abortion, like, “Yay, I’m having an abortion today!” An unwanted pregnancy isn’t fun. There’s a reason it’s called pro-_choice_. It means that each woman has a right to decide what she wants. An abortion, adoption, keeping the child. Many pro-choice people are actually anti-abortion, but they feel that each woman should make that decision for herself. Personally, I feel that the woman is more important than a zygote/fetus. I believe abortion before viability should be legal and readily available. Could I myself have an abortion? I honestly don’t know. I do have medical issues, such as meds I’m on (for seizures) that could cause birth defects, so those would be a big factor. But whatever I would decide, I’m GLAD to have that option open to me. Oh, and not all married people wear wedding rings. My father no longer wears his because it doesn’t fit anymore – it needs resized. Asshole. And even if they weren’t married – what business is it of your’s? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; fully grown humans are **intelligent** creatures, not just a mindless glob of cells. Oh, I don’t know about THAT. 😉 In fact, judging from this thread, I’d say just the opposite. > [@Jas09](#): > > Yeah, I think it goes (1) Adoption, (2) Ethnic Cleansing, (3) Hugs. You forgot 4.) Handshakes. Oh, and BTW, the PP on Liberty Ave? [DOESN’T EVEN PERFORM ABORTIONS](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3358&a=91470&v=details). Only referrals. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/224 "2011-05-07T01:34:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Only if you choose to invest that much meaning into the label. If they want to be called “pro-life”… who cares? It won’t affect an argument based on civil rights or cost/benefit analysis or consequences or cycles of poverty. If they begin talking about “killers” and such, I just ignore it and stay with my core arguments, which so far have been pretty much unassailable, at least on this board, and since I’m not running for elected office, the stakes are trivially low, anyway. right. I’m not fond of the labels of pro life and pro choice in describing the debate. I’m both. As you point out, any realistic discussion about real life policy and consequences is much more complex. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/225 "2011-05-07T02:11:19Z")
You know, in a couple weeks or so I’ll be “escorting” (I’m still not sure why the quotes were there) a teenage girl into the maw of Planned Parenthood. She may well look embarrassed and reluctant. That’s because a nice doctor is going to jack her all open with a speculum and talk to her about her health and contraceptive options. Oh, and she’s really scared of breast cancer, because her mom had it, and she wants to talk to a doctor about it. Thanks for making her more scared! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/226 "2011-05-07T02:46:57Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > You know, in a couple weeks or so I’ll be “escorting” (I’m still not sure why the quotes were there) a teenage girl into the maw of Planned Parenthood. She may well look embarrassed and reluctant. That’s because a nice doctor is going to jack her all open with a speculum and talk to her about her health and contraceptive options. Oh, and she’s really scared of breast cancer, because her mom had it, and she wants to talk to a doctor about it. Thanks for making her more scared! This is the same woman hating faction who do things like oppose HPV vaccine for girls; they not only hope that she’s scared, they wouldn’t mind at all if she got cancer and died. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/227 "2011-05-07T03:43:27Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Yeah, get back to me when any other medical procedure gets treated the same as this one, then we’ll talk. If appendix surgery were illegal, I would hope for appendix surgery to be “safe, legal, and rare”. I mean, give me a fuckin’ break here–the fact you’re arguing with me at all means that you give the appearance of believing that it’s somehow bad or inconsistent to believe that abortion is an inferior option to birth control/education that makes abortion largely unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/228 "2011-05-07T05:02:37Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, and BTW, the PP on Liberty Ave? [DOESN’T EVEN PERFORM ABORTIONS](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3358&a=91470&v=details). Only referrals. :rolleyes: This is hilarious. Read it and weep, folks. This is the level of ignorance we’re dealing with here. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/229 "2011-05-07T06:39:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hey **kambuckta** , we get it that you don’t approve of abortion clinic picketers, but unfortunately for you it is perfectly legal for people to protest peacefully against abortion. And where did **kambukta** say it was either illegal or should be illegal? What he/she said was that it is threatening and a bad way to get one’s message across. Kind of a cheap shot to suggest that **kambucta** is suggesting by this that it wither is or should be illegal. > [@Bricker](#): > > Now, as to the filming – what use are they making of the film? Keeping it to defend themselves against false accusations of illegal behavior? Good! Building a facial recognition database of abortion-minded women? Bad! Out of interest, what do you think their purpose is for this? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/230 "2011-05-07T08:09:03Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > It is not the baby’s fault it was conceived. There is always adoption. One more time for the peanut gallery: adoption is an alternative to parenting, not to pregnancy. For a person who cannot physically, emotionally or financially sustain a pregnancy, adoption is _not_ a viable or reasonable option. It does not solve their problem. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That they don’t do this speaks to a major motivation of the moralizers; [The majority of the positions held by the “pro-life” movement and their political bedfellows don’t hold together logically with a belief that abortion is murder, but they do follow logically from a punitive perspective on sexual activity which they don’t approve of](http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljmiorFir31qb0yllo1_500.gif) (i.e. outside of a heterosexual marriage). > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > You know I’ve always wanted to volunteer to help with something like this. Anybody feel like sending me a PM with a link to some info about how I could go about doing so? The easiest way is to call your local reproductive health center and ask them about their escort program. Keep in mind that even facilities that don’t provide abortions often have escort programs because their patients are harassed just the same. > [@spark240](#): > > I am firmly pro-choice, but in fairness and honesty I have to say that a substantial number of those who demonstrate at clinics do not intend intimidation or threat. And yet, when you follow someone down a street, yelling at her about killing her baby, trying to shove pamphlets in her face, using all manner of emotional manipulation techniques like speaking the “words” of her presumed unborn child saying “mommy, don’t kill me, mommy!” **intimidation and threat is exactly what has occurred**. Intent doesn’t matter. The “it’s not our intent” canard is played specifically to try to insulate these people from the repulsiveness and _violence_ of the behavior in which they engage. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and their intentions aren’t that good to begin with – not their real intentions _or_ the ones that they lie about having. > [@Beniamino](#): > > I doubt this, especially since there are plenty of free clinics in Pittsburgh, where innocent blood is not spilt, but it doesn’t matter. The HELL there are. There simply are not. You cannot name _three_, let alone _plenty_. I know that because I live here, and I’ve \*looked \*for those sources of free or even reduced cost gynecological care for women who were either opposed to abortion and therefore wouldn’t go to Planned Parenthood, couldn’t go to PP because of opposed parents or partners, or were too afraid of protesters and having to run a gauntlet of hostility and harassment to go to PP. Multiple free clinics do not exist. The “free” clinic of Pittsburgh is not free and does not provide full service gynecological care (and no obstetric care). And the clinics that do exist that _may_ offer reduced price gyn care services (may being a key word) have waiting lists several months long. > [@](#): > > Both times I protested PP, our group was quite civil, and we did not directly address anybody entering or exiting the building. If engaged in conversation, we would speak, but otherwise, we would pray, hand out leaflets, and carry signs. There is nothing civil about those signs, or forcing leaflets on people, and that’s what your group did, because that’s what every group that protests at our PP does. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Not only that, abortions will occur even if they became illegal, and single parents, predominantly mothers, will be in need. [Abortion is now the leading cause of death for women 18-30 in Latin America because they do not have access to _legal_, and therefore regulated and safe, abortion services](http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/birthrights/2011/04/201141275013687249.html). This is the lie of the “pro-life” label: when their twisted beliefs are made law it leads directly to the unnecessary deaths of women, and they do not give a flying fuck. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh, and BTW, the PP on Liberty Ave? [DOESN’T EVEN PERFORM ABORTIONS](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3358&a=91470&v=details). Only referrals. :rolleyes: The health _center_ office doesn’t, but the health _services_ office, which is in the same building [does](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3359&a=91470&v=details). It’s the only PP location in all of southwestern PA that does. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/231 "2011-05-07T09:41:12Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Calling it a parasite is simply done to make pro-abortionists feel better. Definition of parasite - An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host. Explain to me exactly how a human fetus (wanted or not) does not fit that description. > [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > I was going to come back and ask if PP protestors also protest at hospitals, since abortions are performed there too. In the town my parents live in (in Canada), abortions are performed at the local hospital and the anti-abortionists do indeed picket in front of the hospital. They have the gory pictures and also tend to bring small children with them and put sandwich-boards on them that say things like “I’m glad my mommy loved me enough to give me the gift of life” - I find the use of kids too young to understand what’s going on (usually too young to even read the sign) as pawns in their game to be especially reprehensible. The way that hospital is laid out, they end up picketing basically directly outside the doors to the ER. I’m sure it goes over really well when they accost people who have come for random issues - especially women who come in to the ER because of preterm labour, spontaneous miscarriage, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/232 "2011-05-07T15:08:32Z")
I call them “anti-abortion” because they are against abortion. If they see that as a negative label, so be it. I don’t them the other side pro-abortion because they are not They are pro-choice. Better labels would be pro-legal abortion and antii-legal abortion. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/233 "2011-05-07T15:19:15Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Definition of parasite - An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host. > > Explain to me exactly how a human fetus (wanted or not) does not fit that description. Here you go: A parasite is defined as an organism of one species living in or on an organism of another species. A human embryo or fetus is an organism of one species living in the uterine cavity of an organism of the same species in a dependent relationship. A parasite is an invading organism – coming to parasitize the host from an outside source. A human embryo or fetus is formed from a fertilized egg – the egg coming from an inside source, being formed in the ovary of the mother from where it moves into the oviduct where it may be fertilized to form the zygote – the first cell of the new human being. that’s just a few examples…no time to post more. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/234 "2011-05-07T15:20:19Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I call them “anti-abortion” because they are against abortion. If they see that as a negative label, so be it. > > I don’t them the other side pro-abortion because they are not They are pro-choice. > > Better labels would be pro-legal abortion and antii-legal abortion. I’m fine with the term anti-abortion and pro-life. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/235 "2011-05-07T17:26:22Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I’m fine with the term anti-abortion and pro-life. I’m not as comfortable with the term pro-life in general, but that’s because it connotes something broader than abortion IMHO–my dad, for example, is pro-life: he’s anti-abortion, anti-death-penalty, and anti-war. I don’t think that’s true of the majority of people who wear the mantle of “pro-life” that I’ve met. ---
**Author:** ![Godinama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@Godinama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Godinama)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/236 "2011-05-07T18:05:59Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I’m fine with the term anti-abortion and pro-life. I don’t like the term pro-life. Jains are pro-life. Anti-abortion or anti-choice is more apt. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/237 "2011-05-07T18:07:06Z")
I’m not comfortable with pro-life except for a minority of anti-abortion folks. Many of those who claim to be “pro-life” are actually pro death penalty, and are the first to call for war. I don’t consider that to be a true pro life stance. On the other hand, I consider myself to be truly prochoice. I used to be an escort for a women’s clinic that performed abortions, and more than once, a woman that I was escorting told me that she was being pressured into an abortion. In that case, I let the staff at the clinic know about this, and the staff or I would try to find resources and help for the woman that would allow her to keep the pregnancy. I am NOT pro abortion, I am pro choice. That is, I don’t advocate abortions for women who don’t want one. I advocate for women having a variety of choices, and one of the choices is to remain pregnant. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/238 "2011-05-07T18:20:29Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > If appendix surgery were illegal, I would hope for appendix surgery to be “safe, legal, and rare”. I mean, give me a fuckin’ break here–the fact you’re arguing with me at all means that you give the appearance of believing that it’s somehow bad or inconsistent to believe that abortion is an inferior option to birth control/education that makes abortion largely unnecessary. Er…Illegal? It’s not illegal. And the _reason_ I’m arguing with you is because you’re accepting the framing of the anti-choicers. Abortion has no more moral weight than any other legal surgical procedure yet it’s treated incredibly differently. And strangely enough, abortion didn’t appear to much bother people before women got the vote or even earlier, when women were agitating to get the vote for themselves and for other people. Womens’ periodicals openly advertised ‘medications’ that would ‘regulate’ a woman’s ‘courses’ and solve her problems. Some of those periodicals were even Catholic. So while it’s legal it’s been under attack for forty years because it liberated women as few things have, and I don’t intend to accept one bit of the anti-choicers’ framing on that issue, because they don’t give a shit about baybeez. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/239 "2011-05-07T18:23:51Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I call them “anti-abortion” because they are against abortion. If they see that as a negative label, so be it. > > I don’t them the other side pro-abortion because they are not They are pro-choice. > > Better labels would be pro-legal abortion and antii-legal abortion. They’re anti a whole lot more than abortion, if you look up the actual effect of their actions on womens’ reproductive rights. They’re against sex ed and birth control. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/240 "2011-05-07T18:42:15Z")
> [@margin](#): > > Er…Illegal? It’s not illegal. And the _reason_ I’m arguing with you is because you’re accepting the framing of the anti-choicers. Abortion has no more moral weight than any other legal surgical procedure yet it’s treated incredibly differently. I disagree. Abortion has more moral weight than other surgical procedures, if for no other reason than there is no sane legal or moral way to give (potential) fathers any binding input, even though in a perfect world (perhaps one where fetuses could be instantly, painlessly, and risk-free teleported to uterine replicators) they have a moral claim to input. The issue is that a fetus occupies two distinct moral statuses–it is both a parasitic lump of tissue on a woman’s body, and a precursor to a child, and that status is entirely dependent morally on the parents’ choice. Realistically, the only parent who has legal input is the mother, because she bears wildly disproportionate risks at that point, but that’s not an ideal situation, merely the best practical solution at this stage of medical technology. > [@](#): > > I don’t intend to accept one bit of the anti-choicers’ framing on that issue, because they don’t give a shit about baybeez. That’s fine, however, I’m not accepting their framing. I am framing it the way I do because of my beliefs regarding parental rights and the necessarily inconsistent status of an unborn fetus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=13)