# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/481 "2011-05-11T00:08:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Only a moron would base humanity on heartbeats. > > Not that I’m suggesting you don’t. 😃 > > In any case, brain dead people can have heartbeats. It’s brain function that defines humanity, and a fetus is effectively brain dead. Hey dummy. Can you read? I’m talking about the difference between a tumor and a fetus. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/482 "2011-05-11T00:10:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Anyway, your views are stupid and you’re either a troll or a very good simulation of one. Nope I’m not a troll. I’m also betting you’re no genius. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/483 "2011-05-11T00:13:58Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > So now we have _two_ versions of what the woman supposedly did - either mouth the words (to whom?) or spelled them out (according to a sketchy AP account reproduced on the Times web page). And that doesn’t raise questions in your mind - the fact that there are multiple versions of the story is a point in its favor? When you were a public defender, did you feel that when a prosecution witness gave multiple, differing accounts of an event, that strengthened his credibility? How do you know these refer to the same incident? And where’s your cite for whatever version you’re pushing? You have no evidence at all, and you’re saying readers should disbelieve two separate accounts, one from the AP and one from People magazine? > [@](#): > > :dubious:Yes, the anti-abortion movement has given us considerable reason to doubt claims about brain-damaged people. Allow me to refresh your memory -think back on the Terry Schiavo case, which “pro-lifers” glommed onto, and the claims made by numerous people (including Senator Bill Frist, the Superman of long-distance video diagnosis) about how she was allegedly communicating with others, proving she was not in a persistent vegetative state. Then at autopsy it was demonstrated that the great majority of her brain was mush, leaving her incapable of responding the way those witnesses and long-distance analysts claimed. Who cares? I have cited my claim. If my cites came from the pages of some pro-life website, I could see your point, but neither People nor the New York Times is particularly sympathetic to the pro-life cause. > [@](#): > > Thanks for conceding my point - filming patients going into the clinic from across the street _is_ intimidation, just not as flagrant as doing it close-up. So even you now admit there’s more going on here than just the Precious Infants brigade protecting themselves from claims of misbehavior. No. I said that intimidation is undoubtedly present, but I don’t agree that’s the goal… it’s an unavoidable side-effect of the legitimate goal of protecting themselves from false accusations by videotaping their encounters. And let’s face it – you’re trotting out disbelief in Barbara Blodgett, when it’s abundantly clear she is NOT brain-dead: she woke up from her coma. That’s pretty much all the evidence needed about your good faith in this debate, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/484 "2011-05-11T00:20:11Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Nope I’m not a troll. I’m also betting you’re no genius. Don’t ever go to Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/485 "2011-05-11T00:23:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Don’t ever go to Vegas. Actually I’m really sure about what I said. I’m going to Vegas and betting everything on you not being a genius. What’s the matter can’t think of anything else to contribute to the actual topic of the thread.? Doesn’t surprise me one bitt. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/486 "2011-05-11T00:24:37Z")
And I’m sure you’re sure. Go on, keep talking to me and spare everyone else. I’ll take a troll for the team. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/487 "2011-05-11T00:29:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And I’m sure you’re sure. > > Go on, keep talking to me and spare everyone else. I’ll take a troll for the team. You’re the fing troll. Now go back under that bridge you came from ok? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/488 "2011-05-11T00:30:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And I’m sure you’re sure. > > Go on, keep talking to me and spare everyone else. I’ll take a troll for the team. You’re trawling for troll? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/489 "2011-05-11T00:30:41Z")
That’s the spirit! What else you got? ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/490 "2011-05-11T00:36:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s the spirit! What else you got? I can’t wait until you slip up and call me a troll on another forum. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/491 "2011-05-11T00:37:33Z")
[A fing troll?](http://www.over-look.com/site/index.php/download) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/492 "2011-05-11T01:00:46Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I can’t wait until you slip up and call me a troll on another forum. Oh, you’ll be banned well before random chance causes me to make a mistake like that. It helps that I’m not as dumb as, well, you. Anyway, gotta go out. If you haven’t been banned by the time I get back, I look forward to continuing. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/493 "2011-05-11T01:22:48Z")
What’s the hp? Hewlett-Packard? Hit points? Half pint? Hungarian Paprikash? Hercule Poirot? Higgeldy-piggeldy? High performance? Harold Pinter? Hardly perceptive? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/494 "2011-05-11T02:18:59Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Isn’t it neat that there’s no way for anyone to compel you to commit murder, then? Exactly. No one will force you to murder. So don’t bother me when I’m murdering. I tried to tell this to the people at the DMV this afternoon but they were making a huge commotion. Actually that’s a bad troll on my part – I mean devil’s advocate. Of course they say it’s murder anyway, so I can’t use it as an analogy since that’s the thing in the first place. But you should get the point. Not many people accept the whole “if you don’t like it don’t do it” logic for most crimes or immoral acts. People are quite proscriptive that way. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/495 "2011-05-11T02:23:54Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > What’s the hp? Hewlett-Packard? Hit points? Half pint? Hungarian Paprikash? Hercule Poirot? Higgeldy-piggeldy? High performance? Harold Pinter? Hardly perceptive? The hp has been the least of my wonderment. I’ve been mostly wondering, what’s the classy? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/496 "2011-05-11T02:25:29Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Actually that’s a bad troll on my part – I mean devil’s advocate. Of course they say it’s murder anyway, so I can’t use it as an analogy since that’s the thing in the first place. But you should get the point. Not many people accept the whole “if you don’t like it don’t do it” logic for most crimes or immoral acts. People are quite proscriptive that way. I’m not sure that’s true. Abortion is not a crime, so that cannot be used as an example, and there are probably no legal “immoral acts” that you can’t apply “if you don’t like it don’t do it” to. Our government has decided that abortion is legal, and since church and state should be separated, whether or not it is immoral should not enter the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/497 "2011-05-11T03:07:57Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Gee I don’t know do tumors have xx or xy chromsomes? i think it’s pretty damn easy to tell the difference. Tumors are clumps of your own cells. So yes, when you get cancer, your tumors will carry all 47 of your chromosomes. > [@](#): > > Tumors don’t have heartbeats either. Embryos don’t have heartbeats for a good 4-5 weeks. Don’t have hearts for that matter. Can we abort before then, or has the sacred part of (human) life already snuck all up in that shiznit ? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/498 "2011-05-11T03:23:25Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > You’re about as classy as a piece of shit yourself. This has convinced me that your argument is clear and logical, and has also revealed to me your inner classy nature. > [@classyladyhp](#): > > :rolleyes: And this succinct and pithy critique is worthy of Descartes himself, and has shown me the error of my ways. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/499 "2011-05-11T03:35:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Can you give a specific example of a tactic that would, in some other context, be violative of a state law against assault, but is permitted when done by abortion protesters? Grabbing at someone’s body and clothing repeatedly and against their will, aggressively thrusting hands toward someone’s face in a fashion that causes them to have to flinch or dodge to avoid being hit (and definitely makes them afraid for their personal safety), bumping into someone to impede their ability to safely walk, and even knocking them over. I’ve had more than a couple of women I’ve escorted who would’ve been knocked down had I or their companion not caught them, and two who were knocked down before anyone could catch them. One woman who used crutches due to a disability had a protester _grab her crutch away from her_ and refuse to return it until the woman listened to his “counsel.” That caused the woman to fall and when her partner tried to catch her, her shoulder was seriously injured. And I say that this behavior is “permitted” when done by the anti-abortion protesters because, despite local laws and a very specific federal law, I have witnessed these actions happening in full view of on duty, uniformed police officers (in four different jurisdictions) and the protesters have never once been so much as cautioned about any of it. In roughly 200 escorting/observing shifts, the only time I’ve _ever_ seen law enforcement say a word to a protester was when they crossed onto facility property and were at risk of arrest for trespassing. I did once see a client’s husband put up against a wall and threatened with arrest when he shoved an exceptionally aggressive 6’2" male protester away from his seriously ill, 5’1" wife, though. That was a good time, especially since that protester was known to all of us for his habit of _waving his cohorts away_ whenever he saw an especially petite or young client approaching. He _got off_ on jamming his huge body in the space and huge hands in the faces of tiny women. He _smiled_ when he saw small women turning the corner from the parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/500 "2011-05-11T03:50:03Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Are you also anti-war and anti-death penalty? Good news: There is an organization for people who do hold consistent views against abortion, the death penalty, and war. They have a website at [http://www.consistent-life.org/](http://www.consistent-life.org/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=26)