# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/541 "2011-05-11T14:21:13Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Wow. i wouldn’t want to meet someone like you in a dark alley. You are all kinds of freaky. > I’m worried about your mental stability at this point. All that hate inside you can’t be very good for you. > You might blow a gasket or something. I picture steam coming out of your ears right about now LOL > Assuming you can read, which is up for debate at this point, go back and read the two vile, sickening posts you wrote and let me know if you think it was a smart thing to say to me. YOU ARROGANT CONDESCENDING HATEFUL BITCH. So, you’ve dropped your act of being offended by bad words… Yup, “LOL” & ALL CAPS are truly marks of class! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/542 "2011-05-11T14:21:15Z")
The one thing I despise the most about the protestors is the absolutely false medical information they disperse. Abortion causes breast cancer! Your two month old fetus can feel pain! Men have psychological damage from abortion! All women regret abortion! Abortion makes you sterile! Adopton is a wonderful la-la land where nobody gets hurt! Bullshit all! I read a very weird book that stated from the time of conception a creature can sense enough to know when it’s being rejected, and future embryos will miscarry because they will know the womb is a place of “rejection and death.” Of course, the same author claimed sexual deviance was caused by “lustful conception”; i.e. rape, unmarried intercourse, or even “too lustful intercourse within marriage.” I could not make this shit up, so if you con’t believe me, read [this](http://www.amazon.com/Deliver-Our-Children-Evil-One/dp/1852401087) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/543 "2011-05-11T14:28:41Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Grabbing at someone’s body and clothing repeatedly and against their will, aggressively thrusting hands toward someone’s face in a fashion that causes them to have to flinch or dodge to avoid being hit (and definitely makes them afraid for their personal safety), bumping into someone to impede their ability to safely walk, and even knocking them over. > > I’ve had more than a couple of women I’ve escorted who would’ve been knocked down had I or their companion not caught them, and two who were knocked down before anyone could catch them. One woman who used crutches due to a disability had a protester _grab her crutch away from her_ and refuse to return it until the woman listened to his “counsel.” That caused the woman to fall and when her partner tried to catch her, her shoulder was seriously injured. > > And I say that this behavior is “permitted” when done by the anti-abortion protesters because, despite local laws and a very specific federal law, I have witnessed these actions happening in full view of on duty, uniformed police officers (in four different jurisdictions) and the protesters have never once been so much as cautioned about any of it. So when you say “permitted” you’re not talking about any sort of claim that the LAW permits it – you’re saying that individual police officers choose to ignore the law in the instances you witnessed. Taking you at your word, you’ve only seen law enforcement intervene once in 200 instances. You don’t say how many of those 200 instances involved illegal conduct on the part of the protesters. Do you have any data other than your own observations? I have attended more than 200 abortion clinic protests where the actions of the “protesters” were limited to standing there praying. Not once have I personally seen any illegal conduct on the part of the protesters. In fact, the most significant interaction I’m aware of from personal experience was a woman who stopped to tell one of our number that he was an idiot – who would care for this kid if she had it? Him? He replied, “Let me call my wife and ask her.” And that woman, once she realized he was serious, ended up having her baby and my friend and his wife adopted the child. And they kept the birth mother involved in her daughter’s life to the extent she wanted to be; all three attended her daughter’s high school graduation and the young woman just got married. Since we’re trading anecdotes, and all. I don’t deny that protesters have crossed the line into acting illegally. I reject the claim that it’s proper to say these acts are permitted because of some special legal status that only innures to abortion protesters. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/544 "2011-05-11T14:31:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How do you know these (stories about the coma patient) refer to the same incident? Hmm…first **Bricker** was proclaiming that having differing versions of the same story made it more credible for him. Now he’s postulating multiple occasions where someone supposedly asked the woman the same question and got the same non-sequiturish answer, and demanding that _I_ document these postulated events to prove his point. Exactly how long have you been posting here, **Bricker**? You know better than this. > [@Bricker](#): > > Who cares? (about the parallels with Terry Schiavo) You should, since the anti-abortion movement so grievously embarassed itself by making ludicrous claims about her. Some might view that as justifying caution when citing a poorly documented anecdote in the case of another brain-damaged patient and using it to promote anti-abortion views. > [@Bricker](#): > > I said that intimidation is undoubtedly present, but I don’t agree that’s the goal… Before, you said that filming clinic visitors was to protect the anti-abortion protestors, pure and simple. Now you’re conceding that it’s intimidating to the patients, but that it’s “unavoidable”. Nice switcheroo. > [@Bricker](#): > > Why, in this very thread, **Jackmannii** accuses both People magazine and the New York Times of lying, with no contrary citation to bolster his claim. False. I pointed out that the stories were vague, not to mention differing on a key detail. Nowhere did I accuse either publication of lying. Get your facts straight. > [@Btricker](#): > > “So we (anti-abortion protestors) need some way to be able to prove, if accused, that we did nothing illegal. What do you suggest?” Since you’re speaking for these people, here’s an answer directed to them. “Don’t get in the face of clinic patients, don’t blockade clinic entrances, don’t stalk, harass or obstruct women seeking medical care, and reject the use of bombs and guns to get your way when the law doesn’t agree with your goals. You’ll find that accusations of illegal activity will cease to be a problem.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/545 "2011-05-11T14:35:37Z")
Another ancedote: The protestors know me. Some respect my opinion, some treat me like shit. One of the latter was talking to a guy attempting to go in the clinic one day. I was standing behind her where the guy could see me. When she realized I was there, she moved between us. I moved again. She moved again, blocking me from his view. I moved again. She moved again. I moved. She finally turned around and said “Excuse me, this is a private conversation.” I looked befuddled, then said “Excuse me, this is a public sidewalk and I have not said a word.” The cop came over and asked what was wrong. I explained what happened, adding that I was not saying anything to anyone. He told the protestor I had every right to stand there, but he wasn’t going to interfer. I guess i should be glad the protestor didn’t pull a gun and shoot my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/546 "2011-05-11T14:41:50Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > He told the protestor I had every right to stand there, but he wasn’t going to interfer. “But” he wasn’t going to interfere? Shouldn’t that be “and”? Nobody there was _doing_ anything wrong; the cop is exactly correct. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/547 "2011-05-11T15:02:52Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The one thing I despise the most about the protestors is the absolutely false medical information they disperse. Abortion causes breast cancer! Your two month old fetus can feel pain! Men have psychological damage from abortion! All women regret abortion! Abortion makes you sterile! Adopton is a wonderful la-la land where nobody gets hurt! Bullshit all! > > I read a very weird book that stated from the time of conception a creature can sense enough to know when it’s being rejected, and future embryos will miscarry because they will know the womb is a place of “rejection and death.” Of course, the same author claimed sexual deviance was caused by “lustful conception”; i.e. rape, unmarried intercourse, or even “too lustful intercourse within marriage.” > > I could not make this shit up, so if you con’t believe me, read [this](http://www.amazon.com/Deliver-Our-Children-Evil-One/dp/1852401087) You’ve proved that a book of some kind exists. Your implicit claim that this is some sort of standard text for abortion protester use is still unproven, and does in fact fall into the catefory of “making shit up.” As to the other claims: _Abortion causes breast cancer!_ Agreed that this is nonsense. The only relationship I’m aware of is the fact that a risk factor for breast cancer is a woman’s age at the time of her first live birth. I suppose one could thus argue that a young woman who chooses to give birth rather than abort somehow insulates herself from being an older woman giving birth for the first time, but that seems a tenuous argument. _Your two month old fetus can feel pain!_ Pretty sure that’s nonsense, although there is some debate about what age a fetus can feel pain. I’ve seen studies that place it at 20 weeks and studies that place it much later. I am unaware of any serious pro-life attempts to claim it’s less than 20 weeks, and since most abortions occur prior to the 20 week mark, I don’t think this would be a deciding factor too often. Is this a strawman, or have you a cite for any serious pro-life claims of an 8-week-old fetus feeling pain? - Men have psychological damage from abortion!\* This doesn’t seem like an impossible claim to me. What is your evidence that this is “bulshit all?” - All women regret abortion!\* Obvious nonsense. Of course, equally nonsensical would be a claim that no women regret abortion – right? _Abortion makes you sterile!_ Obviously untrue, although equally obviously there’s a non-zero chance that abortion would result in some medical problem that would cause sterility. But so might tobacco use, STDs, and endometriosis, all with substantially more likelihood than abortion, so this claim is fairly described as bullshit, and I HAVE heard it made by pro-life advocates. - Adopton is a wonderful la-la land where nobody gets hurt!\* I think this is another strawman. Obviously pro-life advocates believe that adoption is generally positive and almost certainly a better choice than abortion, but I’ve never seen anyone seriously claim that it’s a wonderful la-la land where nobody gets hurt. When you phrase it that way, you remove it from a debatable proposition to an obvious falsehood. That’s exactly what the “strawman” fallacy describes: you change your opponent’s argument to something absurd, and then defeat it, hoping your listener will conclude that you’ve defeated that actual argument. How about a comment on the actual argument: _adoption is generally positive and almost certainly a better choice than abortion_? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/548 "2011-05-11T15:06:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Hmm…first **Bricker** was proclaiming that having differing versions of the same story made it more credible for him. Now he’s postulating multiple occasions where someone supposedly asked the woman the same question and got the same non-sequiturish answer, and demanding that _I_ document these postulated events to prove his point. Not at all. The answer is “non-sequiterish” only in the first story. In the second, it’s a perfectly responsive answer to the query. Still dodging the basic issue. I have two cites. You have zero cites. Put up or shut up. > [@](#): > > False. I pointed out that the stories were vague, not to mention differing on a key detail. Nowhere did I accuse either publication of lying. Get your facts straight. Yes, I’m sure you meant only to clear up the confusion on the key detail. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Since you’re speaking for these people, here’s an answer directed to them. “Don’t get in the face of clinic patients, don’t blockade clinic entrances, don’t stalk, harass or obstruct women seeking medical care, and reject the use of bombs and guns to get your way when the law doesn’t agree with your goals. You’ll find that accusations of illegal activity will cease to be a problem.” Really? When such fair-minded persons as yourself are on the other side? Yeah, that’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/549 "2011-05-11T15:08:25Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Another ancedote: The protestors know me. Some respect my opinion, some treat me like shit. > > One of the latter was talking to a guy attempting to go in the clinic one day. I was standing behind her where the guy could see me. When she realized I was there, she moved between us. I moved again. She moved again, blocking me from his view. I moved again. She moved again. I moved. > > She finally turned around and said “Excuse me, this is a private conversation.” > > I looked befuddled, then said “Excuse me, this is a public sidewalk and I have not said a word.” > > The cop came over and asked what was wrong. I explained what happened, adding that I was not saying anything to anyone. > > He told the protestor I had every right to stand there, but he wasn’t going to interfer. > > I guess i should be glad the protestor didn’t pull a gun and shoot my ass. And…? It’s no wonder you seem to believe the cops are ineffective, if this is your idea of a situation in which the cops should have acted. What crime do you contend was committed here, that would have justified the cop’s acting in some way? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/550 "2011-05-11T15:08:42Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Oh and to dropzone don’t you dare send me another DM about the partial birth abortion your brother and SIL had. If you can’t differentiate between fantasy and reality it isn’t my problem. I am not responsible for your family and their crazy problems. PM? BTW and FYI, “partial birth abortion” is more of a political term than a medical one, and there is a lot of disinformation about it. Also, it is not as simple as it sounds. Obviously, I did not see what **dropzone** sent you, but your response sounds quite vicious. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/551 "2011-05-11T15:18:10Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > BTW and FYI, “partial birth abortion” is more of a political term than a medical one, and there is a lot of disinformation about it. Also, it is not as simple as it sounds. Obviously, I did not see what **dropzone** sent you, but your response sounds quite vicious. Not to mention posting private information about a third party that was received through a private channel. Stay classy there, lady! ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/552 "2011-05-11T15:20:22Z")
A quick “thanks” for mentioning the story of [Angela Carder (née Stoner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_A.C.)). I hadn’t heard of her before, and I’m horrified to think that this happened in my country and during my lifetime. From the Wiki article: "The doctors at George Washington University Hospital in Washington, D.C. immediately gave Carder only days to live and disagreed with her choice to put her own life ahead of the fetus. Instead of treating the cancer, they ignored her protests and inserted an oral feeding tube into her, rendering her silent, and administered sedatives, in an effort to delay her death and increase her fetus’ chance chance of continued development. . . " **ClassyladyHP** : do you agree with what the doctors at the hospital did to her? Would you have done the same? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/553 "2011-05-11T15:20:52Z")
> [@Lorski](#): > > I said that you were proving your name wrong. Never called you a name. You responded by calling me a piece of shit. Nothing classy about that. Thus proving my point again. How was it not a “svery mart” thing to say? You just keep on proving me right. > > Now go fuck yourself. I’m done with you, you sniveling wanna-be morally superior god-pounding thick-headed idiot. > > There, now I stooped to your level and called you names. Happy now? :rolleyes: > [@Lorski](#): > > Fuck you. I’m judging you by your posts. You have only one post to judge me by. Go home, little girl. These posts include language that isn’t permitted in The Pit. Please review the Restricted Language in The Pit sticky and avoid repeating that language. Gfactor Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Lorski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lorski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorski)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/554 "2011-05-11T15:42:20Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > These posts include language that isn’t permitted in The Pit. Please review the Restricted Language in The Pit sticky and avoid repeating that language. > > Gfactor > Pit Moderator Noted and apology proffered to Gfactor. \*goes off to read sticky that I should have read before posting:smack: \* ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/555 "2011-05-11T15:49:04Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > One of the two will develop into a baby the other one never will. Is that an admission that an embryo is not a baby? Now we’re at least dealing with facts. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/556 "2011-05-11T15:53:08Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > Not to mention posting private information about a third party that was received through a private channel. Stay classy there, lady! If someone sends me hate mail i have a right to disclose that. I didn’t post the actual PM but I can if you want. They have no right to privacy if they are stupid enough to send an abusive PM they have forfeited that right ok stupid? ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/557 "2011-05-11T15:54:09Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Is that an admission that an embryo is not a baby? Now we’re at least dealing with facts. Nope:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/558 "2011-05-11T15:55:48Z")
> [@Lorski](#): > > Noted and apology proffered to Gfactor. > \*goes off to read sticky that I should have read before posting:smack: \* You see? That’s what I was trying to tell you. too bad you’re not bright enough to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/559 "2011-05-11T15:56:38Z")
If this was a rom-com Bricker and Classy would be sitting on the edge of a hotel bed by now, watching a pregnancy test strip slowly change color. Then the scene would change and Classy would be in line at a planned parenthood. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/560 "2011-05-11T15:58:24Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > PM? > > BTW and FYI, “partial birth abortion” is more of a political term than a medical one, and there is a lot of disinformation about it. Also, it is not as simple as it sounds. Obviously, I did not see what **dropzone** sent you, but your response sounds quite vicious. He referred to it as a partial birth abortion.I didn’t post the actual PM. I still have it though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=29)