# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/41 "2011-05-06T17:02:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Everyone gives a shit about _actual people_ being murdered. Foetuses are not actual people yet. > > **Little Bird** does not speak for all of us, but calling pro-choice people “pro-abortionists” just makes you look stupid. No it doesn’t. It makes me look smart and thanks for the personal insult!!! ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/42 "2011-05-06T17:03:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m pointing out the obvious fact that you are attempting to reduce women to the status of a breeding animal, a womb with legs. You are asserting that you, not they own their bodies and can choose what is done with them. You are asserting that they are subordinate to a blob of tissue, not even an animal. > > And my comment about tormenting them was of course referring to the fact that the anti-abortion movement is ultimately all about the torment and oppression of women. They don’t actually care about the fetus except as far as it can be used as a club to beat the woman down. They don’t care about “children”, they don’t care about actually stopping abortions; they consistently act in ways that will cause the maximum amount of suffering and harm to women, _not_ in ways that will actually stop abortions. It’s a hate movement, no better than the KKK. Perhaps those women should not have sex if they are not ready to deal with the consequences. It’s not ok for the baby to pay for it’s mother’s mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/43 "2011-05-06T17:04:47Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > But, as a family lawyer who handles child support cases routinely, it’s been my experience that it does. People can be heartbreakingly selfish and cruel. Many people consider a women to choosing to give birth to unwanted, never wanted baby then demanding 18 years of garnishing a man’s paycheck (money that could be the difference between completing an education, staring a business, or the life or death of his other family members) the absolute height of heartbreaking selfishness and cruelty. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/44 "2011-05-06T17:05:07Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > And if they stop 100 teenage girls from getting birth control, and 10 of them get pregnant and then get an abortion, it’s still worth it, right? I never said I object to birth control. You’re putting words in my mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/45 "2011-05-06T17:05:31Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Perhaps those women should not have sex if they are not ready to deal with the consequences. It’s not ok for the baby to pay for it’s mother’s mistakes. If only there were a clinic that provided free birth control that a young, newly sexually active person could go to without being called a baby murderer… ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/46 "2011-05-06T17:05:48Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > I don’t particularly care what the reason why somebody would be “escorting” someone into PP would be. Aiding and abetting the premeditated murder of an innocent has no moral justification. Oh frick off. I gave birth about two weeks ago. The damage to my body includes stretch marks, weight gain, aching and leaky breasts, stitches in places I don’t care to think about and feet that look like baseballs. My blood pressure climbed so high during labor they were worried I’d go into convulsions. Considering the very real risks posed by pregnancy and birthing you and santimonious ilk should be on your hands on and knees in gratitude that a woman dares go through with a pregnancy. Take your ludicrous outrage over rational reproductive choices and go away. ---
**Author:** ![Beniamino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@Beniamino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beniamino)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/47 "2011-05-06T17:06:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Everyone gives a shit about _actual people_ being murdered. Foetuses are not actual people yet. Well, that about sums it up, doesn’t it? If we can’t agree on when a human becomes a human, we’re not going to agree about when abortion becomes murder. Day 0? Day 90? Somewhere in between? It’s a byzantinely complex issue. Roe v. Wade says “viability”, but soon we’ll be able to “grow” babies from eggs, so what does that mean? Heartbeat? Brain waves? Pain sensation? High school graduation? Seems to me, if you have to draw a line, there’s only one line to be drawn – conception. Any other “line” is fictive. But until debaters agree when human life becomes human life, further debate is not productive. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/48 "2011-05-06T17:06:30Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Perhaps those women should not have sex if they are not ready to deal with the consequences. Getting an abortion IS dealing with the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/49 "2011-05-06T17:08:06Z")
I actually think it’s to choose to oppress people who have sex out of wedlock, not women. The idea is that anyone who has sex should have to worry about having a baby and having to take care of it. It isn’t just anti-women, because they expect the father to marry the pregnant mom. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/50 "2011-05-06T17:09:25Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > Seems to me, if you have to draw a line, there’s only one line to be drawn – conception. Any other “line” is fictive. Exactly. Seems to you. And from “seems to you” you are calling an entire other group, for whom it “seems” that the reasonable line is different, murderers. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/51 "2011-05-06T17:09:31Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Perhaps those women should not have sex if they are not ready to deal with the consequences. It’s not ok for the baby to pay for it’s mother’s mistakes. An abortion is dealing with the consequences responsibility. Giving birth frequently is not. It’s creating one more burden that the world does not need. As long as the “baby” is inside the mother’s body (technically guilty of cannibalism and unlawful trespass, so it’s not innocent), she has the right to have it removed like any other parasite growth. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/52 "2011-05-06T17:09:54Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > No it doesn’t. It makes me look smart and thanks for the personal insult!!! I didn’t say you were stupid. I said your comment made you _look_ stupid. You already thanked me, though, so I guess I should follow through: you’re stupid. > [@Beniamino](#): > > Seems to me, if you have to draw a line, there’s only one line to be drawn – conception. Any other “line” is fictive. > > But until debaters agree when human life becomes human life, further debate is not productive. What’s the point of “further debate” when your position is “life begins at conception and that’s the end of it”? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/53 "2011-05-06T17:10:15Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > Seems to me, if you have to draw a line, there’s only one line to be drawn – conception. Any other “line” is fictive. Garbage. That is a point picked only for the purpose of excusing the oppression of women. It is completely inconsistent with the definition of legal personhood we use everywhere else. Do you oppose organ donations? Do you oppose people scratching themselves? Those skin cells are just as alive as any fetus. So is a tumor. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/54 "2011-05-06T17:10:23Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > Well, that about sums it up, doesn’t it? If we can’t agree on when a human becomes a human, we’re not going to agree about when abortion becomes murder. Day 0? Day 90? Somewhere in between? > > It’s a byzantinely complex issue. Roe v. Wade says “viability”, but soon we’ll be able to “grow” babies from eggs, so what does that mean? Heartbeat? Brain waves? Pain sensation? High school graduation? > > Seems to me, if you have to draw a line, there’s only one line to be drawn – conception. Any other “line” is fictive. > > But until debaters agree when human life becomes human life, further debate is not productive. Brilliant post. I believe it’s a baby from conception not a group of cells and therefore a human being who has the right to life. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/55 "2011-05-06T17:11:20Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Brilliant post. I believe it’s a baby from conception not a group of cells and therefore a human being who has the right to life. :dubious: Regardless of whether or not it’s a baby, it’s still a group of cells. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/56 "2011-05-06T17:11:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Garbage. That is a point picked only for the purpose of excusing the oppression of women. It is completely inconsistent with the definition of legal personhood we use everywhere else. Do you oppose organ donations? Do you oppose people scratching themselves? Those skin cells are just as alive as any fetus. So is a tumor. A skin cell is never going to become a baby:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/57 "2011-05-06T17:12:00Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > A skin cell is never going to become a baby:smack: Irrelevant. And incorrect, given cloning. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/58 "2011-05-06T17:12:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > :dubious: Regardless of whether or not it’s a baby, it’s still a group of cells. Oh but so are fully grown humans. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/59 "2011-05-06T17:13:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Irrelevant. And incorrect, given cloning. At the present time you actually know of a human created from a single skin cell? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/60 "2011-05-06T17:13:33Z")
> [@Beniamino](#): > > Seems to me, if you have to draw a line, there’s only one line to be drawn – conception. Any other “line” is fictive. > [@classyladyhp](#): > > Brilliant post. I believe it’s a baby from conception not a group of cells and therefore a human being who has the right to life. Both of you need lessons in biology. Conception does NOT equal baby. Many fertilized eggs cannot become babies. Believe me, after several chemical pregnancies and slightly later miscarriages I know this from bitter experience. Human reproduction is far more complex than the simplistic pieties allowed for by the anti-abortionists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=4)