# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Lorski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Lorski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorski)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/641 "2011-05-11T19:06:42Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > …\ > > Ah, yes. Point taken. Down with the picketers!! **shakes fist at sky** 😃 Indeed! ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/642 "2011-05-11T19:08:42Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > **classyladyhp** , what you could have done was: > > 1. forwarded the PM to a moderator. > 2. aired your grievance in this thread without bringing up a third party’s private business in public. > 3)got into it with **dropzone** via PM > 4)ignored the PM and got on with your day > > All of those would have been better options. > > As it is you just look needlessly cruel and vindictive. > > Oh, and not at all classy. > > I’m sure that was not your intention, bless your heart. > > The classy thing would be to apologise to **dropzone** and ask the mods to delete any posts revealing things which should have stayed private. If dropzone wanted it to stay private he should have kept it to himself instead of calling me the most horrendous names in the book. I haven’t posted the actual DM but I can if you want. PM’s are not meant to be a way to verbally assault someone and their character you know? Bless your heart ms. higher than thou. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/643 "2011-05-11T19:09:11Z")
Uh oh. Mom came home. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/644 "2011-05-11T19:09:56Z")
Hahahah…awwwww. Beaten to the punch by **DianaG.** ☹ ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/645 "2011-05-11T19:12:15Z")
> [@](#): > > is not welcoming (or interesting) to a woman whose adoption experience was positive See this is what happens when you claim to know shit you actually ‘know’ nothing about. The board in question is not pre selective to those traumatized by bad adoption experiences. It it for all women who surrendered children. There are women, on the board who had better experiences, were glad they made the choice they did. But they are all traumatized by the experience. That’s the point. Good or bad, it’s a traumatizing experience in a way you cannot hope to comprehend. Fortunately, it’s clear you don’t let such things stand in the way of deciding/knowing what’s right for everyone else. Hard facts are you live in a democracy, your opinion is the minority. No one more than women, realize exactly how difficult a position that is, get back to us when you’ve had to suck it up for over a century, and we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/646 "2011-05-11T19:12:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t. I was implying she does. > > It’s a stealth (and extremely classy) Down syndrome joke. > > At least it was until I had to explain it. And now it’s ruined. WHY THANKS A LOT, \*ASSHOLE \*! 🙂 > > ETA: also, random thought I just had upon browsing this abortion of a thread, if I get what she’s about embryos should be kept alive because they have the potential to become babies. > Bur babies have the potential to become serial killers. Think about it. > > Or you know, don’t. I sure as hell didn’t. That’s really nice to make fun of people with Down’s syndrome:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/647 "2011-05-11T19:13:53Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t. I was implying she does. > > It’s a stealth (and extremely classy) Down syndrome joke. > > At least it was until I had to explain it. And now it’s ruined. WHY THANKS A LOT, \*ASSHOLE \*! 🙂 > > ETA: also, random thought I just had upon browsing this abortion of a thread, if I get what she’s about embryos should be kept alive because they have the potential to become babies. > Bur babies have the potential to become serial killers. Think about it. > > Or you know, don’t. I sure as hell didn’t. Oh gosh not the stupid serial killers thing again? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/648 "2011-05-11T19:28:57Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > As a fr’instance, it’s definitely a better option for anyone who doesn’t want to be pregnant. > > There’s certainly nothing inherently wrong with adoption, but it’s clearly not a “better choice” unless you don’t mind bearing a child, which is not exactly a minor undertaking. Exactly. I’m somewhat dumbfounded by the statement. It’s better that this embryo grow in your body and be adopted than you make a choice others don’t like concerning your own body and life. I fail to see how the logic and reasoning in that can be defended. Offering and facilitating that choice is a great thing,… but it’s still the pregnant woman’s choice to make. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/649 "2011-05-11T19:38:25Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > See this is what happens when you claim to know shit you actually ‘know’ nothing about. The board in question is not pre selective to those traumatized by bad adoption experiences. It it for all women who surrendered children. There are women, on the board who had better experiences, were glad they made the choice they did. But they are all traumatized by the experience. That’s the point. Good or bad, it’s a traumatizing experience in a way you cannot hope to comprehend. > > Fortunately, it’s clear you don’t let such things stand in the way of deciding/knowing what’s right for everyone else. > > Hard facts are you live in a democracy, your opinion is the minority. No one more than women, realize exactly how difficult a position that is, get back to us when you’ve had to suck it up for over a century, and we’ll talk. So to be clear, you contend that adoption is a net negative experience for the vast majority of women that choose it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/650 "2011-05-11T19:51:51Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > See this is what happens when you claim to know shit you actually ‘know’ nothing about. The board in question is not pre selective to those traumatized by bad adoption experiences. It it for all women who surrendered children. There are women, on the board who had better experiences, were glad they made the choice they did. But they are all traumatized by the experience. That’s the point. Good or bad, it’s a traumatizing experience in a way you cannot hope to comprehend. Acoording to [this survey](http://www.adoptioninstitute.org/survey/Adoption_Attitudes_Survey.pdf), attitudes by those who have adoption experience were overwhleming positive. 69% of those with adoption experience called their experience “Very Favorable.” Of those without direct adoption experience, only 51% rated their opinion of adoption “Very Favorable.” 26% of those with adoption experience called their experience “Somewhat Favorable.” Of those without direct adoption experience, 40% rated their opinion of adoption “Somewhat Favorable.” So 95% of those with direct experience with adoption rated their experience either very, or somewhat, favorable. The raw survey results were weighted to census targets for age, race, gender, income, region, and number of telephone lines to ensure that the sample represented all Americans. The sampling and weighting methods are the same as those used for The Harris Poll. Given the sample sizes for this study, the margin of error for percentages near 50% is plus or minus 3 points for the entire sample. The margin of error for sub-groups varies depending on the size of the sub-group, but in no case exceeds 9%. Now, there’s a cite. Beyond your “private board,” do you have any actual data, as opposed to self-selected anecdotes? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/651 "2011-05-11T19:57:06Z")
And something about this board that pisses me off: In any conversation about a different subject, six people would have jumped down **elbows** ’ throat for not understanding self-selection as a concept and not understanding how it relates to drawing conclusions from her “private board.” But because the issue here is tangentially related to abortion, there’s a great reluctance to step in and address the issue. Someone asked earlier about incoherent arguments on the pro-choice side. I conceded that the pro-life side had more than its share. But here’s an argument that’s manifestly incoherent, based on anecdotal data, and pretty self-evidently wrong. You may not agree that abortion is worse than adoption; you cannot think than adoption is so uniformly negative. But because the argument appears on the pro-choice side, no one steps in and says anything. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/652 "2011-05-11T20:01:11Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > Great post. The above is especially important because this is what I was trying to get to before. My second-guesses were actually a way to get the poster to think about where the axioms come from. The classylady, for example, appears to be basing her axioms on a prior trauma. People like her can’t be swayed by facts. Hell, they don’t appear to be swayed by traumas experienced by victims of anti-choice forces. Pretty much unreachable. Dam it. had a response almost finished, hit the wrong key and lost it. :mad: okay, I vented. What’s the point of getting people who are unreachable to consider their axioms? IMO, it’s a mistake to bring up religious beliefs until the religious people do. I think it’s progress that many religious groups are trying to cloak their beliefs in non religious terms and trying to convince people they are are logical and reasonable. IMO, it’s a matter of practicality and strategy. > [@](#): > > There’s also something you’re missing which is going to be un-PC but I’m putting it out there. People of below average intelligence have a really hard time processing facts and come to a logical conclusion. I think people forget this. I’d like to put something out there that I think a lot of people miss. People are multi faceted and made up of intellect, our ability to think reason and learn, and emotions. All people. The elements of character are not dependent on intelligence. Compassion, decency, courage, honor, kindness, loyalty, etc, the intangibles, do not depend on intelligence or education. Illiterate people can have tremendous character , and highly intelligent people with great educations can be assholes. and all stripes in between. Less educated people can be very practical while very educated can be very irrational. I think processing facts has something to do with how and facts are presented and presenting them in a relevant timely manner. People can be subject to propaganda and their own personal preferences but that I think that can be addressed by getting more information out there to more people. Society and religion has changed as that has happened and will continue to do so. As you say, some people are unreachable. I tend not to spend a lot of time trying to reason with those who demonstrate they’re not interested in listening. I just move on to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/653 "2011-05-11T20:01:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And…? > > It’s no wonder you seem to believe the cops are ineffective, if this is your idea of a situation in which the cops should have acted. > > What crime do you contend was committed here, that would have justified the cop’s acting in some way? I suggest you missed the point of Annie’s anecdote. I read it as she _didn’t_ want the cop to intervene, and when he did, Annie had the impression that his sympathies were with the protester, not with Annie who was arguably engaged in a distracting counter-protest. Her belief about his sympathies are reflected in the last line of her post, where she (facetiously, I’m sure) suggested the cop wouldn’t take her side even if the protester had shot her. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/654 "2011-05-11T20:22:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I suggest you missed the point of Annie’s anecdote. I read it as she _didn’t_ want the cop to intervene, and when he did, Annie had the impression that his sympathies were with the protester, not with Annie who was arguably engaged in a distracting counter-protest. > > Her belief about his sympathies are reflected in the last line of her post, where she (facetiously, I’m sure) suggested the cop wouldn’t take her side even if the protester had shot her. The cop _did not intervene_. He asked what was going on, and he told the protestor that **Annie** “had every right to stand there.” To the extent that he _did_ anything at all, it was on **Annie** ’s behalf. But I admit I didn’t understand at all what she was getting at with the last line, so perhaps she’ll explain. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/655 "2011-05-11T20:23:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And something about this board that pisses me off: > > In any conversation about a different subject, six people would have jumped down **elbows** ’ throat for not understanding self-selection as a concept and not understanding how it relates to drawing conclusions from her “private board.” > > But because the issue here is tangentially related to abortion, there’s a great reluctance to step in and address the issue. > > Someone asked earlier about incoherent arguments on the pro-choice side. I conceded that the pro-life side had more than its share. But here’s an argument that’s manifestly incoherent, based on anecdotal data, and pretty self-evidently wrong. You may not agree that abortion is worse than adoption; you cannot think than adoption is so uniformly negative. > > But because the argument appears on the pro-choice side, no one steps in and says anything. I was waiting for this to be answered > [@](#): > > So to be clear, you contend that adoption is a net negative experience for the vast majority of women that choose it? It would unreasonable to assume this is true, just as I think it’s unreasonable to assume adoption is the better option in most cases. Adoption, like most human endeavors, depends on the people involved for it’s negative of positive quality. It’s easy for me to believe that some women are pressured into either adoption of abortions they regret. It’s an emotionally charged issue for almost everyone. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/656 "2011-05-11T20:24:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Acoording to this survey, attitudes by those who have adoption experience were overwhleming positive. 69% of those with adoption experience called their experience “Very Favorable.” Of those without direct adoption experience, only 51% rated their opinion of adoption “Very Favorable.” ‘Adoption experience’, being defined as having adopted/surrendered, hmmm, wonder why the results come out as they did? Do you even understand that the women most traumatized by the experience, don’t answer surveys? I doubt it. It’s so intensely personal that privacy must be ensured, by making it a private board, so they will talk about it at all. The breadth of your ignorance is immense. And no one cares what those, ‘with no adoption experience’, think, they are the same as you, no concern for the mothers, or their trauma, as long as it suits their political agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/657 "2011-05-11T20:29:30Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > The cop _did not intervene_. He asked what was going on, and he told the protestor that **Annie** “had every right to stand there.” To the extent that he _did_ anything at all, it was on **Annie** ’s behalf. > > But I admit I didn’t understand at all what she was getting at with the last line, so perhaps she’ll explain. Well, “intervene” / “walked over and asked what was going on”… whatever… he interjected his presence, which is of course not a bad thing in and of itself if he perceived trouble (or potential trouble) brewing between Annie and the protester. I didn’t get the impression _Annie_ felt his presence was needed, and I get the further impression Annie didn’t view him as some impartial observer wanting only to keep things civil, but rather that he would have told Annie to move along had he been free to choose, and I’m confident my interpretation is far closer than Bricker’s, but if Annie wants to expand on it, I invite her to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/658 "2011-05-11T20:35:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And something about this board that pisses me off: > > In any conversation about a different subject, six people would have jumped down **elbows** ’ throat for not understanding self-selection as a concept and not understanding how it relates to drawing conclusions from her “private board.” > > But because the issue here is tangentially related to abortion, there’s a great reluctance to step in and address the issue. > > Someone asked earlier about incoherent arguments on the pro-choice side. I conceded that the pro-life side had more than its share. But here’s an argument that’s manifestly incoherent, based on anecdotal data, and pretty self-evidently wrong. You may not agree that abortion is worse than adoption; you cannot think than adoption is so uniformly negative. > > But because the argument appears on the pro-choice side, no one steps in and says anything. That’s not quite fair. For one thing, **Der Trihs** was taking some hits from pro-choice people earlier in this thread. For another, the attitude you describe is hardly unique to this board, or to pro-choice people in general. Most people are reluctant to attack their perceived allies in emotionally charged issues like abortion. I note that there aren’t a whole lot of conservatives in this thread, other than yourself, who are making the sort of concessions you’ve made. (Granted, there aren’t a whole lot of conservatives on this board to make those concessions in the first place…) And lastly, while your expectation may be reasonable, you’re on page fourteen of an abortion Pit thread. I think most of the reasonable people exited the thread about seven pages back. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/659 "2011-05-11T20:38:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And something about this board that pisses me off: > > In any conversation about a different subject, six people would have jumped down **elbows** ’ throat for not understanding self-selection as a concept and not understanding how it relates to drawing conclusions from her “private board.” > > But because the issue here is tangentially related to abortion, there’s a great reluctance to step in and address the issue. Semi-related, the poster calling himself **Omg a Black Conservative** cited (in the current GD thread on abortion which is pretty much the same as this one except classylady’s trollery is mercifully absent) a study that he claimed linked abortion and child abuse. I read it, pointed out some flaws, including some “self-selected” aspects that could easily bias the results of a study with such a small sample size. I don’t recall anyone commenting, though, on his behalf or mine. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/660 "2011-05-11T20:50:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So when you say “permitted” you’re not talking about any sort of claim that the LAW permits it – you’re saying that individual police officers choose to ignore the law in the instances you witnessed. I’ll go a step further and say that by all appearances and when directly questioned, the policy of the police departments in these four jurisdictions was for their officers (because it was a rotating cast of officers) to not intervene in client-protester interactions, no matter how fearful the clients’ reactions obviously were (women were regularly reduced to weeping, for pity’s sake) or how impeded their path into the facility until someone used their _hands_ to shove or someone got hit. > [@](#): > > Taking you at your word, you’ve only seen law enforcement intervene once in 200 instances. You don’t say how many of those 200 instances involved illegal conduct on the part of the protesters. No, no, there were more than 200 instances. I have been on scene at facilities on approximately 200 separate days. Each of those involved escorting multiple clients, a double-length Saturday shift might’ve included several dozen. There weren’t the confrontational “sidewalk counselors” present during each of my escorting shifts but when they were around, especially on Saturdays, it was instance after instance of the aggressive, physically and emotionally intimidating behavior. > [@](#): > > Do you have any data other than your own observations? I have attended more than 200 abortion clinic protests where the actions of the “protesters” were limited to standing there praying. Not once have I personally seen any illegal conduct on the part of the protesters. There’s a difference between the pray and sing and hold sign variety of protest and the “sidewalk counselor.” The latter have gone through some sort of training – typically at a crisis pregnancy center – to learn an “elevator pitch” to give a clinic client in the limited time they have while she’s on public property. Because their time is limited, and because there’s such urgency on their part, that’s when and why things get heated. I’d be hard pressed to imagine what a bunch of people standing and praying on a sidewalk could do that’s illegal besides blocking a public thoroughfare. I’m not sure what kind of data you want. Other than a couple of blogs and a few escorts who are now tweeting during their escort shifts to catalog some of the more outrageous things they’ve seen and heard, it’s not as if anyone is keeping records of these interactions, even when they get severely ugly, that I could point you toward. If you’re willing to have a look, though, there’s [Every Saturday Morning](http://everysaturdaymorning.wordpress.com/), and the top post right now contains a video from a client’s perspective, showing the effect of having to walk from the corner to the door of a clinic with people shouting at you, and some woman leaping out at you yammering at you about free ultrasounds and God deciding the gender of your baby and financial counseling (note: counseling, not assistance) and literally dozens of people are screaming about killing and shouting prayers at you (which can have a profound effect on clients who are religious) and so on. No one should have to face that in order to get health care. It’s also notable, in that video (taken at the clinic that the ACLU has called one of the worst in the nation for protest activity) you can see that the “sidewalk counselors” are wearing dayglo vests. This is significant. Clients are told, when they make their clinic appointments, to look for the clinic escorts, who wear vests that say “clinic escort” on them. The anti-abortion sidewalk “counselors” have taken, in many places (including at my local clinic) to also wearing vests in order to confuse the clients about who they’re meant to go to for protection, who it is that’s tasked with helping them into the actual clinic where they’ve got an appointment. _Their_ vests usually have some small insignia (often on the back) representing that they’re “pro-life escorts” or “life escorts” or something, but when they’re intentionally positioning themselves on the sidewalk just as close or _closer_ to where clients exit their cars or come onto the public sidewalk from the parking lot as the real escorts, by the time the confusion is sorted out, they’ve already had a fair amount of time to get into their often exceedingly misleading shpiel. This is especially true in places where the latest anti-choice coercion tactic is to set up one of their crisis pregnancy centers in the same building, same block or right across the street from reproductive health care providers, and give them misleading names like “Women’s Choices Clinic” even though there is no medical care provided at all. They capitalize on misleading people through the intentional creation of confusion and blatant lies. Apparently I Corinthians 14:33 and Revelations 21:8 mean nothing to these good “godly” Christians. I’ve asked, I get blank stares. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=34)