# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/901 "2011-05-13T14:12:56Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I suspect the majority of pro-choicers would indeed support that solution, and that the majority of pro-lifers _wouldn’t._ It’d take them about ten seconds to realize that this plan a. would have to be state-funded to be viable and b. wouldn’t punish whores, and they’d be screaming bloody blue murder. I’m pro-life and I am telling you i’m all for such a device 100%. Don’t assume that the majority of pro-lifers feel this way. The people who are pro-life and misogynistic probably feel this way. Don’t lump pro-lifers like me into that category. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/902 "2011-05-13T14:18:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Donating a frozen embryo to an infertile couple is even less of a hassle, yet most couples don’t do it. I’m not a fertility expert but embryo’s are not removed from a uterus before freezing. Eggs are removed and fertilized in a petri dish. While the sentiment is nice it’s not even remotely related to a debate on abortion. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/903 "2011-05-13T14:29:39Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I’m pro-life and I am telling you i’m all for such a device 100%. Well let’s relax the assumptions a little bit, because they are obviously unrealistic. But lets still leave them to a degree unfairly biased in favor of the “device.” What if rather than there being no risk and no side effects, the risks and side effects of the device were of an equal level than those of undergoing an abortion. Would that change your view? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/904 "2011-05-13T14:52:09Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I suspect the majority of pro-choicers would indeed support that solution, and that the majority of pro-lifers _wouldn’t._ It’d take them about ten seconds to realize that this plan a. would have to be state-funded to be viable and b. wouldn’t punish whores, and they’d be screaming bloody blue murder. Interestingly for your theory, the only persons to raise objections to it in this thread are pro-choice, and the pro-lifers have expressed uniform support. This suggests to me that your view of the pro-life view is a strawman, and you don’t actually understand why pro-lifers feel as they do. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/905 "2011-05-13T14:56:37Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Donating a frozen embryo to an infertile couple is even less of a hassle, yet most couples don’t do it. Um… that’s not how frozen embryos are donated. Donated embryos are fertilized _in vitro_, not _in utero_. The issue of abortion relates to terminating a pregnancy, where the pregnant woman must take some affirmative step to end the pregnancy; donation of an embryo would require a non-pregnant woman to come in and have an egg harvested. So most couples don’t do that because there’s no particular impetus for them to do it – they’re not pregnant and don’t have to take any affirmative steps to do anything. You … you _did_ know that, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/906 "2011-05-13T14:57:13Z")
I said the _majority_ of pro-lifers, because the _majority_ of pro-lifers also tend to be conservative both fiscally and socially, and I understand exactly why they feel the way they do. They’re kinda dumb and insecure and don’t cope well in a world where people have the power to ignore them, so they have to yell and stamp their feet incessantly about shit that’s really none of their business. I’m sure there are pro-lifers who’d be good with this solution, but they are, in fact, a tiny minority. Congrats on your meeting of the mind with classy, though. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/907 "2011-05-13T14:59:01Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I said the _majority_ of pro-lifers, because the majority of pro-lifers also tend to be conservative both fiscally and socially, and I understand exactly why they feel the way they do. They’re kinda dumb and insecure and don’t cope well in the world, and they have someone to feel superior to. To be fair, **classyladyHP** seems to fit the typical anti-choice profile perfectly, and she claims to be in favor of it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/908 "2011-05-13T15:00:43Z")
> [@Lorski](#): > > Funny how most of the people here (not all) that are opposed to abortion are _men_ who cannot get pregnant and will never have to face the issue directly. > > But yet they still want to tell pregnant women what to do. I won’t ever be a burglar, but I still oppose the death penalty for burglars. I won’t ever be a woman, but I still am in favor of telling employers that they may not sexually harrass women. Is that also “funny?” Or is it that all voting members of this democratic republic have the right to participate in the lawmaking process, through their public dialog and their votes, because that’s how a democratic republic works? Hmm. I pick (b). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/909 "2011-05-13T15:03:03Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I said the _majority_ of pro-lifers, because the _majority_ of pro-lifers also tend to be conservative both fiscally and socially, and I understand exactly why they feel the way they do. They’re kinda dumb and insecure and don’t cope well in a world where people have the power to ignore them, so they have to yell and stamp their feet incessantly about shit that’s really none of their business. > > I’m sure there are pro-lifers who’d be good with this solution, but they are, in fact, a tiny minority. Congrats on your meeting of the mind with classy, though. And what is your evidence that the majority of pro-lifers would oppose such a solution? And how does your latest twist in your analysis account for **classylady** , who appears to fit the description you gave and yet still favors it? ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/910 "2011-05-13T15:06:07Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Well let’s relax the assumptions a little bit, because they are obviously unrealistic. But lets still leave them to a degree unfairly biased in favor of the “device.” > > What if rather than there being no risk and no side effects, the risks and side effects of the device were of an equal level than those of undergoing an abortion. Would that change your view? Could you please clarify further? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/911 "2011-05-13T15:06:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I won’t ever be a burglar, but I still oppose the death penalty for burglars. > > I won’t ever be a woman, but I still am in favor of telling employers that they may not sexually harrass women. Well, you **could** be a burglar, and you also could be a victim of sexual harassment. Especially if you keep dressing like you do and shaking that sexy little ass. Not that I think men shouldn’t have an input on abortion law, but the situations aren’t really comparable. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/912 "2011-05-13T15:07:47Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Could you please clarify further? What clarification do you need? **Bricker** ’s example posed a situation where the extraction of the fetus posed no risks whatever to the woman. I am relaxing that a little to one where the process carried risks at a level equal to that of undergoing an abortion (though not necessarily the same individual risks, but the same overall level of risk units). ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/913 "2011-05-13T15:10:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And what is your evidence that the majority of pro-lifers would oppose such a solution? > > And how does your latest twist in your analysis account for **classylady** , who appears to fit the description you gave and yet still favors it? What’s your evidence that they would? And please don’t expect me to accept the fact that you and classy are both okay with it as adequate evidence. Or to 'splain classy. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/914 "2011-05-13T15:13:04Z")
I think Annie’s point is that people don’t donate leftover frozen embryos that they’re not going to use, so what makes you think they’d go through surgery to donate an embryo/fetus? As someone with a leftover embryo that I didn’t donate, I think there are a few problems to be raised with this analogy. One, I would have happily donated the embryo, but my husband didn’t want to. Presumably the decision to use this magic machine would lie solely with the woman, like the decision to have an abortion now. In order to donate an embryo, legally, both parents must agree. I wanted to donate to another couple, he wanted to discard; we compromised on donating to research and/or embryologist training. Two, leftover embryos are the products of a couple that wanted to get pregnant very much. You have to have spent a _lot_ of time and money to get to that point, trying to achieve that goal. It’s hard to then turn around and give it away. Even if you think you’re done having kids, part of you is always wondering if you want more, and that leftover embryo represents a possibility of doing it without the stress and pain of full-blown IVF. On the other hand, a woman who is pregnant and seeking an abortion generally does not want to be pregnant. She’s not dreaming about knowing whether she’s carrying a boy or a girl, thinking about what she’s name it and what it would be like when it grows up. She’s not invested in the idea of it as a baby - it’s a birth control accident. So giving it up feels less like a sacrifice than it does to the woman who spent weeks giving herself shots and feeling her ovaries blow up like balloons before going in for an exquisitely timed surgery and getting daily phone calls with updates on how many fertilized and how their cells are dividing. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/915 "2011-05-13T15:29:24Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I said the _majority_ of pro-lifers, because the _majority_ of pro-lifers also tend to be conservative both fiscally and socially, and I understand exactly why they feel the way they do. \*\*They’re kinda dumb and insecure and don’t cope well in a world where people have the power to ignore them, so they have to yell and stamp their feet incessantly about shit that’s really none of their business.\*\*I’m sure there are pro-lifers who’d be good with this solution, but they are, in fact, a tiny minority. Congrats on your meeting of the mind with classy, though. Again with the name calling:rolleyes: I’m not nor have I ever been dumb. You calling me dumb doesn’t matter to me though. I’d only be offended if someone who I thought was intelligent called me dumb. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/916 "2011-05-13T15:30:51Z")
[quote=“ENugent, post:914, topic:580935”] I think Annie’s point is that people don’t donate leftover frozen embryos that they’re not going to use, so what makes you think they’d go through surgery to donate an embryo/fetus? Just because you didn’t doesn’t mean people don’t donate embryos. Some people do. QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/917 "2011-05-13T15:34:42Z")
[quote=“Bricker, post:909, topic:580935”] And what is your evidence that the majority of pro-lifers would oppose such a solution? QUOTE] She has no evidence. It’s based on her unfounded belief that all pro-lifers are crazy women hating whackos. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/918 "2011-05-13T15:35:35Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Again with the name calling:rolleyes: > I’m not nor have I ever been dumb. You calling me dumb doesn’t matter to me though. I’d only be offended if someone who I thought was intelligent called me dumb. So far, the entirety of your intellectual power seems to be devoted to scanning the thread for your name, and concentrating so hard on choosing the right smiley for your response that you forget all about the space bar and punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/919 "2011-05-13T15:35:44Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Just because you didn’t doesn’t mean people don’t donate embryos. Some people do. Sure, some people do. But really not all that many. But the point of my post was to explain why that statistic is not directly transferable to how many people would be comfortable “donating” unwanted pregnancies. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/920 "2011-05-13T15:36:13Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > She has no evidence. It’s based on her unfounded belief that all pro-lifers are crazy women hating whackos. Wouldn’t it be based on her belief that the majority of anti abortion rights people are crazy women hating whackos? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=47)