# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1081 "2011-05-14T02:14:23Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Like I said. I am not the one who caused your kidney’s to fail and you are a stranger to me. I have no obligation to save your life. Don’t fight the hypothetical. Presuming you DO agree, can you back out? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1082 "2011-05-14T02:16:30Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > **cosmodan** , you’re being remarkably civil towards this cretinous creature, but I don’t think your reason and logic is going to get through her gelatinous head. > > Well done for trying though!! 😛 > > BTW, I’m happy to ask a mod to close this dumbed-down thread if anyone else agrees. I’m a bit over it now, seems like a good waste of the intraweb to keep it going. > 😃 It’s more a personal goal to remain civil than any expectation of results. Bricker had some interesting arguments. but I think we’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1083 "2011-05-14T02:17:43Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Don’t you think you’re being a bit demanding? Honestly, I think I’m wasting my time, but I’ll be pleasantly surprised if she can write a few coherent, thoughtful words in response to any of those questions. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1084 "2011-05-14T02:33:48Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > It’s true. Abortion is baby killing. I wonder why that term bothers pro-choicers so much? Because it’s not true, and for the most part anti-choice people use it for emotional effect. Except in the rare cases when it’ a late abortion, all that is being “killed” is a fetus. It isn’t a baby until it’s separate from the woman - you know, “she’s going to have a baby”, “she gave birth to a baby”, etc? You can wave your tiny little hands around all you want about it being a baby, but by law and by common speech, it isn’t. Go forth and expend your energies on real babies, and leave women alone. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1085 "2011-05-14T03:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Embryos are less developed. Five year olds are less developed than 16 year olds. Does that mean the 16 year old has more rights than the 4 year old. Actually, 16 year olds DO have more rights than five year olds. For example, if the 16 year old has his/her parent’s permission, s/he can apply for a driver’s license in most states. Five year olds don’t have that right. And 18 year olds are considered almost fully adult, in the US. 18 year olds have almost all adult rights, whereas someone who is one day shy of his/her 18th birthday is still considered a minor in all the states I know of. It’s true that 18 year olds are not permitted to drink alcohol, but for the most part, they are considered full adults by US law. You’re going to have to come up with another argument, because this one doesn’t work. Also, if you’re going to continue to insist that other people are stupid, you REALLY need to learn how to multi-quote. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1086 "2011-05-14T03:20:32Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Also, if you’re going to continue to insist that other people are stupid, you REALLY need to learn how to multi-quote. I’ve been fighting mentioning that for a while, myself. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1087 "2011-05-14T03:31:03Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Look, I’m pro-choice enough to have done escort shifts, donated, written letters, whatever. > > Do not do this. It is a complete dick move, and doesn’t accomplish anything aside from the petty thrill of tweaking **Bricker** ’s nose. It’s less offensive than his insistence that people yelling – oh, wait, not yelling, speaking loudly – at a woman going into a clinic is acceptable behavior because he dislikes that the person is presumably seeking an abortion. No one can read what’s written on our vests, anyway. That part would be purely personal satisfaction. I make donations to Planned Parenthood in the name of anti-choice zealots all the time. My last donation was in the name of (actually “in honor of”) the governor of South Dakota. Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for someone to answer my question: > [@](#): > > would anyone be okay if every woman entering a standard OB/GYN office was approached by a stranger on the sidewalk who presumed that the woman was pregnant and then “counseled” that woman that abortion was an option, and tried to get her to skip her OB appointment to come with them to their facility, where they had financial breakdowns of what it cost to raise a child, and counselors who could talk to them about why abortion might be the more reasonable decision for them to make at that time? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1088 "2011-05-14T03:39:27Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > It’s less offensive than his insistence that people yelling – oh, wait, not yelling, speaking loudly – at a woman going into a clinic is acceptable behavior because he dislikes that the person is presumably seeking an abortion. No one can read what’s written on our vests, anyway. That part would be purely personal satisfaction. I make donations to Planned Parenthood in the name of anti-choice zealots all the time. My last donation was in the name of (actually “in honor of”) the governor of South Dakota. See, I don’t think fighting childishness with childishness is ever the right solution. Keep fighting the good fight by escorting, but a resounding “meh” to playing silly-buggers with donation honorariums. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1089 "2011-05-14T03:43:09Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > It’s true. Abortion is baby killing. I wonder why that term bothers pro-choicers so much? It doesn’t bother me. It is just too simple and doesn’t take everything into consideration: the mother’s health status, the fetus’s condition, the circumstances of its conception, etc. Having a DNR and Advance Directive in one’s files (as I do, just as my folks did) allows a medical professional or possibly a family member to “pull the plug,” so to speak, if the patient so chose to have this done. Is that murder? Is it “adult killing”? Some say so, but the law allows for it. It allows for abortion too. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1090 "2011-05-14T04:16:38Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > BTW, I’m happy to ask a mod to close this dumbed-down thread if anyone else agrees. I’m a bit over it now, seems like a good waste of the intraweb to keep it going. I’ve been thwarted. Reading **Miller’s** response to **Sarafeena’s** request to close down \*her \*thread, it appears that an OP cannot request a Pit Thread be closed. So this baby’s gonna go to term folks. I’d really rather it was aborted now though. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1091 "2011-05-14T04:50:53Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > So someone on life support is not a person then? > [@classyladyhp](#): > > I guess a newborn baby can feed itself? Surely you can see how mechanical life support or assisted feeding are different from being _physically attached to another human being_? Someone on life support needs a nurse to attend to their needs, but if that nurse decides they don’t want to do it any more, someone else can step in. If a baby is hungry, several different people can address its needs. Thus, neither of those things are equivalent to a fetus dependant on its mother for \*everything \*- nobody else can take over. > [@classyladyhp](#): > > Like I said. I am not the one who caused your kidney’s to fail and you are a stranger to me. I have no obligation to save your life. So if I need a kidney due to a genetic disease, my mother should be legally required to provide it to me? After all, she gave me the disease, right? So strap her down and start hacking that kidney out of her! > [@classyladyhp](#): > > Ad hominem fallacy. Attack the person rather than the argument. > > You do know when you talk like that you sound like a toddler right? > > Should I stoop to your level as well. Idiot. Ah, crying about Ad hominem attacks and in the same post calling someone else an idiot. I bet you see no irony in that. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1092 "2011-05-14T05:53:21Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I’ve been fighting mentioning that for a while, myself. I’ve been fighting the urge to quote Inigo Montoya at her for a while. “You keep on using that word” ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1093 "2011-05-14T06:42:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wow. I’d really prefer you didn’t do that. > > Send them all the money you wish, but not in my name. So you want to force women to continue pregnancies and you’re an arrogant ass when it come to the harassment your side dishes out, but the _idea_ that your name alone might be noted on the line of a check _bugs_ you. But forcing a woman to endure harassment when she tries to get a legal medical procedure—or a variety of them----yet nine months of physical risks doesn’t bug you at all. And you’re more willing to grant humanity to the fetus than to the woman, whose humanity has to be secondary to that fetus you’re so concerned about. Two human beings cannot occupy the same physical space. When one says that the fetus is a human being, one gives that lump precedence over the woman, who is reduced to something less than human. I’m donating more money than I thought I would. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1094 "2011-05-14T07:14:41Z")
> [@margin](#): > > So you want to force women to continue pregnancies and **you’re an arrogant ass when it come to the harassment your side dishes out,** but the _idea_ that your name alone might be noted on the line of a check _bugs_ you. . (my bolding) She’s got a point there **Bricker**. Not that I necessarily agree with \*\*margin’s \*\*tone or any other raving hysterics she has previously displayed on this board, but it seems incongruous for you to promote the practice of annoying and distressing attendees at a clinic, yet not happy to be annoyed and perhaps distressed by having a donation made in your name. And anyway, it’s totally legal for any one of us to make a donation to a charity but to name another as the donor. Payback’s a bitch innit?? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1095 "2011-05-14T11:41:28Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > **cosmodan** , you’re being remarkably civil towards this cretinous creature, but I don’t think your reason and logic is going to get through her gelatinous head. > > Well done for trying though!! 😛 > > BTW, I’m happy to ask a mod to close this dumbed-down thread if anyone else agrees. I’m a bit over it now, seems like a good waste of the intraweb to keep it going. > 😃 I’m not a “creature” you arrogant…fill in the rest. Pro-choicers go ahead and support the killing of as many babies as you wish. If that makes you feel better go right ahead. I believe abortion is wrong. It is the killing of an innocent child. So call keep calling me names because you don’t agree with me. I know that makes you feel better about yourself and you need all the help you can get. My conscience is clear. I never have and I never will abort and innocent human life because that life is inconvenient for me. How can a mother kill her own child? It is her own child after all it’s A FACT. That my friends is truly disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1096 "2011-05-14T11:47:15Z")
It’s page 22. Welcome to The Pit. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1097 "2011-05-14T12:48:03Z")
> [@ENugent](#): > > You might, but more often that not, you’re expecting/hoping to get one or two up to the point where you can transfer them at day three. You’re hoping you have enough eggs developing that they don’t cancel the whole damn cycle. They you’re hoping that they fertilize, and often they don’t. Then you’re hoping that they make it to day 3, or day 5. Plenty of women have their transfers cancelled because they all die. > > Practically, the only women who are seriously risking ending up with a dozen frozen embryos are young women whose partners are the ones with the fertility problem, or egg donors. And most REs that I’ve seen discuss the issue think the idea of transferring lots of embryos with the intention of doing selective reduction is monstrous. Yes, they recommend selective reduction if you’re carrying a high-order pregnancy, but they try not to let you get into that situation in the first place. The trend is actually toward single-embryo transfers. Just another data point - I’ve had 3 cycles of IVF, collected 20 eggs in total, and successfully grew only 3 of those 20 to 5 day blast stage. That’s not an uncommon result - eggs can be immature, fail to fertilise or fail to progress. Of my 3, 2 successfully implanted (my daughter and one in the oven) and I have 1 frozen embryo. Doctors are being conservative these days to try to only get you the family you plan for via low drug recommendations and single transfers only except in rare cases, but it is true that you go into the process with your eyes open that you may have to decide what happens to remaining embryos (declarations need to be signed etc). And while I would not have appreciated protesters at my clinic, I think Bricker’s comment that they put the protesters where they can have the greatest effect is perhaps a little disingenuous. There are heaps of protesters shown in that clinic video from earlier - more than enough to spread around a few fertility clinics as well. It leads me to conclude that numbers in mass are an important factor in order to achieve a satisfactory level of intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1098 "2011-05-14T13:05:43Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Well for one thing taking a child away from an neglectful or abusive parent doesn’t force the parent to have a surgical procedure. You know of a way to get an abortion _without_ a medical procedure? The kid is going to be be removed anyway. What difference does it make to a mother that doesn’t want it if it remains alive afterwards? I’m trying to find the excluded middle here between ‘life begins at conception’ and ‘legal abortions at 39 1/2 weeks’ because I think both of those positions are disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1099 "2011-05-14T13:17:02Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I’m not a “creature” you arrogant…fill in the rest. > Pro-choicers go ahead and support the killing of as many babies as you wish. If that makes you feel better go right ahead. I believe abortion is wrong. It is the killing of an innocent child. So call keep calling me names because you don’t agree with me. I know that makes you feel better about yourself and you need all the help you can get. > My conscience is clear. I never have and I never will abort and innocent human life because that life is inconvenient for me. > > How can a mother kill her own child? It is her own child after all it’s A FACT. That my friends is truly disgusting. I’d type a detailed response but I have a litter of puppies to drown and I do it one at a time so I can savor it. Then I’m going over to the clinic with a clipboard and tell the protestors we’re running a baby killing special this weekend to see if they want to sign up. Try to learn the difference between what you feel is true, and what real facts are. It helps quite a bit if you’re involved in a discussion. ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1100 "2011-05-14T13:22:34Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Science does. Science absolutely does not. Go back and read this thread. There was a detailed discussion between Bricker, Cosmodan and I. You missed it while you were having one snit after another. Most reasonable, thinking people distinguish between human life and human beings. Instead of flailing around on a message board, why don’t you learn a little bit from scientific sources about human development from a science perspective and avoid wallowing in anti-abortion propaganda? Or remain ignorant but please don’t say science or rational thinking supports your views. It doesn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=56)