# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1641 "2011-05-18T21:23:45Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > As someone who gave birth nearly a month ago and currently caring for a newborn I sincerely think all prolifers can go fuck themselves. > > My entire pregnancy was one endless series of scary side effects including high blood pressure, heart palpitations, breathlessness, aching back and feet that looked like golf balls. > > Actually giving birth involved oxygen, incredibly painful contractions and a needle in my back. > > The aftermath of the pregnancy included stitches in my reproductive organs, stretch marks, swollen breasts and ankles so swollen I could barely move for a few days. > > Caring for my newborn daughter has so exhausted my husband my emotional and physical resources that I literally begged my parents to come stay in my house for a month to help out. This is the first time I’d had some time to think in about four weeks. > > I regret none of this. I love my youngest daughter. I would do anything for her. But that kind of effort should be entered into lightly. It certainly should not be entered into because the birth control failed or you got raped or because some idiot religious fanatic wants to feel better about themselves. > > A pregnancy should be carried out out of joy and love. > > Any asshole who truly thinks otherwise – who has the ludicrous stupidity to ignore just how hard it is to carry, give birth and care for babies – can come here. I have a few dirty diapers I’d like to lob your way. After all of that, can you imagine how you would feel about your daughter if you hadn’t wanted her to begin with, or even worse, if she had been the product of rape? Why is it that pro-lifers seem to be more “torture all life”? ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1642 "2011-05-18T21:28:56Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > After all of that, can you imagine how you would feel about your daughter if you hadn’t wanted her to begin with, or even worse, if she had been the product of rape? Why is it that pro-lifers seem to be more “torture all life”? Oh but abortion is not torture right? Do you have any idea how they are performed? Pro-lifers are not about torturing life. That’s what pro-choicers are about. We’re against the slaughter of babies. You guys are for the right to let women kill their own children. That choice takes precedence because the woman’s right not to be pregnant supercedes the baby’s right to life. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1643 "2011-05-18T21:30:04Z")
Oh, I get it now. Her username is irony. Ha. Ha. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1644 "2011-05-18T21:31:03Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > You’re not the board’s only prolife nutter. > > :rolleyes: > > You and your ilk need to stop pretending that pregnancy and newborn care are minor inconveniences. You look like nitwits when you do that. Women don’t have abortions because they’re selfish bitches who want to kill babies. Many have them because they really do think that babies are better off born when a woman is truly ready to be mom. Most rational people understand that raising babies and children is an intensely demanding activity that should be entered into under the best possible circumstances and not just because the birth control failed. No. Women have abortions mainly because they are selfish bitches. In the case where the woman had sex and got pregnant and decides motherhood is not convenient she is being a selfish bitch. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1645 "2011-05-18T21:31:14Z")
> [@Little\_Bird](#): > > **A fetus starts out as a single, fertilized cell and over 40 weeks developes into a baby. There is no point at which a definitive line can be drawn to say “before this point this not a baby” and “after this point this is a baby”, just as in this statement there is no point you can definitively the color of the text has changed from purple to blue. Does this mean the color was blue from the start?** That was very good! ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1646 "2011-05-18T21:32:12Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I think **Bryan** has made an excellent argument for his case, {if I understand it correctly} that even if we did designate an embryo as a person due equal consideration under the law, there is no law to force one person to biologically support another. I’m not sure we can find an accurate analogy but I’ll play. > Let’s say I take my elderly father into my home, and as his health fails quickly, the burden on me, and my resources, is more than I’m willing to bear.After all I have my own future and my own family to be responsible for. He needs a transfusion from me on a regular basis and it’s affecting my ability to work. The down side is that there is nobody else to care for him. > Is there, or should there be, a law or moral obligation, for me to deplete my resources and put my life and health at risk for him, or should I have the right to choose for the sake of my own life, over his? > > Is there any legal precedent that compels me continue to care and support his life? Anyone? It’s not your fault your father has this medical condition. You have no point. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1647 "2011-05-18T21:37:40Z")
I think I particularly like the “if it’s morally wrong then consequences don’t matter” argument. It strikes me as ignoring reality for the sake of winning a philosophical point. So if making abortions illegal is morally correct, then all the negative consequences that result from that don’t matter, even if they outweigh the positive, because in the end, being morally correct, trumps all. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1648 "2011-05-18T21:40:12Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > No. Women have abortions mainly because they are selfish bitches. In the case where the woman had sex and got pregnant and decides motherhood is not convenient she is being a selfish bitch. Yet another illustration of why so many of us truly hate the prolife movement. Children should be made because they are wanted and will be loved, adored, nurtured and cherished. They should not be a punishment because a group of vindictive hyperreligious zealots view many women as selfish bitches who murder babies for their own convenience. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1649 "2011-05-18T21:40:16Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > Oh but abortion is not torture right? No. > [@](#): > > Do you have any idea how they are performed? Yes. Do you? I mean really, not just what other nutters tell you. > [@](#): > > Pro-lifers are not about torturing life. Uh huh - see your next quote below. > [@](#): > > You guys are for the right to let women kill thier own children. Nope, we are pro giving them the choice to abort a fetus. There is a difference which you refuse to see. I’d say since we respect your position enough to address it correctly AND allow you to follow it yourselves, you could do the same. > [@classyladyhp](#): > > No. Women have abortions mainly because they are selfish bitches. In the case where the woman had sex and got pregnant and decides motherhood is not convenient she is being a selfish bitch. This is what I mean be anti-abortionists being close to pro-torture. Do you really want a woman (if she even exists) who is so shallow that she has an abortion merely because a pregnancy is “inconvenient” to be raising a baby? Taking care of a newborn, despite your belief they sleep all the time, is hard enough and women who wanted their babies sometimes snap under the pressure. Yet you have no problem with women who don’t want the baby from the beginning raising them? This once again shows that all you care about is the fetus, and not any resulting baby. [QUOTE=classyladyhp] It’s not your fault your father has this medical condition. [/QUOTE] Then turn it around and make it that a man has his 30 year old son in his house and "his health fails quickly, the burden on me, and my resources, is more than I’m willing to bear.After all I have my own future and my own family to be responsible for. He needs a transfusion from me on a regular basis and it’s affecting my ability to work. The down side is that there is nobody else to care for him. Is there, or should there be, a law or moral obligation, for me to deplete my resources and put my life and health at risk for him, or should I have the right to choose for the sake of my own life, over his? Is there any legal precedent that compels me continue to care and support his life? Anyone?" ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1650 "2011-05-18T21:41:40Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > It’s not your fault your father has this medical condition. You have no point. So all life isn’t sacred then. It’s a matter of responsibility? Not only that, I assumed the responsibility when I took him in. Are you saying I can just drop the responsibility to care for him because the situation changed and it requires more than I expected? ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1651 "2011-05-18T21:46:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No. > > Yes. Do you? I mean really, not just what other nutters tell you. > > Uh huh - see your next quote below. > > Nope, we are pro giving them the choice to abort a fetus. There is a difference which you refuse to see. I’d say since we respect your position enough to address it correctly AND allow you to follow it yourselves, you could do the same. > > This is what I mean be anti-abortionists being close to pro-torture. Do you really want a woman (if she even exists) who is so shallow that she has an abortion merely because a pregnancy is “inconvenient” to be raising a baby? Taking care of a newborn, despite your belief they sleep all the time, is hard enough and women who wanted their babies sometimes snap under the pressure. Yet you have no problem with women who don’t want the baby from the beginning raising them? This once again shows that all you care about is the fetus, and not any resulting baby. > > Then turn it around and make it that a man has his 30 year old son in his house and "his health fails quickly, the burden on me, and my resources, is more than I’m willing to bear.After all I have my own future and my own family to be responsible for. He needs a transfusion from me on a regular basis and it’s affecting my ability to work. The down side is that there is nobody else to care for him. > Is there, or should there be, a law or moral obligation, for me to deplete my resources and put my life and health at risk for him, or should I have the right to choose for the sake of my own life, over his? > > Is there any legal precedent that compels me continue to care and support his life? Anyone?" In most cases a pregnancy doesn’t kill the woman. The fetus does what it naturally has to do to grow. It’s not a parasite as many of you pro-choicers believe. You are bring up all these crazy scenarios but they have no point in this debate. You can call me a nutter but you get all pissed off when I use the term pro-abortion so I have refrained from using it. However, why should I? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1652 "2011-05-18T21:49:57Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > You can call me a nutter but you get all pissed off when I use the term pro-abortion so I have refrained from using it. However, why should I? Probably because you’re pretending to have a debate. But don’t worry about changing your verbiage at this juncture, we all know you are a nutter regardless. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1653 "2011-05-18T21:53:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > So all life isn’t sacred then. It’s a matter of responsibility? > Not only that, I assumed the responsibility when I took him in. Are you saying I can just drop the responsibility to care for him because the situation changed and it requires more than I expected? That doesn’t even make sense. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1654 "2011-05-18T21:54:33Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > No. Women have abortions mainly because they are selfish bitches. In the case where the woman had sex and got pregnant and decides motherhood is not convenient she is being a selfish bitch. There are women on this very board who got pregnant while using not one, not two, but THREE birth control methods at once, and still got pregnant. They were trying very, very hard to not get pregnant. Would you still say a woman in this (very, very real-life) scenario is “a selfish bitch” to receive an abortion? ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1655 "2011-05-18T21:55:04Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Probably because you’re pretending to have a debate. But don’t worry about changing your verbiage at this juncture, we all know you are a nutter regardless. You have the mental capacity of a toddler so obviously all you can do is call people nutter. So stalk me all you want on this thread. I have nothing more to say to you. I don’t debate with crazy people like yourself. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1656 "2011-05-18T21:56:51Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > There are women on this very board who got pregnant while using not one, not two, but THREE birth control methods at once, and still got pregnant. They were trying very, very hard to not get pregnant. Would you still say a woman in this (very, very real-life) scenario is “a selfish bitch” to receive an abortion? No method of birth control is 100% guaranteed:rolleyes: They need to take responsibilty for their mistake and not punish thier own unborn child for something that the child had no fault in doing. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1657 "2011-05-18T22:01:09Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > That doesn’t even make sense. It was a simple question. You made the statement early on that all life is sacred. You also made a comment about not being responsible for strangers. Now here’s a scenario where someone is caring for his father and now you claim it’s about responsibility. I’m trying to see if there’s some consistency of reasoning in your thinking aside from the emotional arguments. You can answer or just avoid answering as you’ve previously done. Avoiding the discussion tells us something as well. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1658 "2011-05-18T22:02:05Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > You have the mental capacity of a toddler so obviously all you can do is call people nutter. So stalk me all you want on this thread. I have nothing more to say to you. > I don’t debate with crazy people like yourself. Where did you crawl out from, honestly? What link about IVF or breastfeeding or abortion brought you from the depths of google search to our lovely little playground here? The only threads I’ve seen you post in for the whopping 3 weeks you’ve been here are about pregnancy or abortion. I was using your own terminology in the quote, if you’ll scan the thread you’ll discover I also called you a bitch. I just think it’s hilarious that you bitch and whine about how pro-choice people are all intellectual retards when you won’t respond to the few in here who have made a good-faith effort to have a reasonable debate with you to determine what your positions are. As close as I can determine, your positions are “women who have abortions are selfish bitches”, “pro-choicers are morons who kill newborn babies”, and “you have no point.” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1659 "2011-05-18T22:06:54Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > You have the mental capacity of a toddler so obviously all you can do is call people nutter. Y’know, you might think you’re fooling people when you cut off the opponent’s logically coherent argument, just show the insult on the end, and then claim they do nothing but insult you, but the rest of us can scroll up. God doesn’t like it when you bear false witness. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1660 "2011-05-18T22:19:07Z")
I’d like to also make the point that being in a human society REQUIRES that we draw lines morally and legally. We cannot function without them. It’s not morally objectionable for anyone to draw these lines or for people to have disagreements about where the lines are drawn. There’s been a lot of talk about drawing a line somewhere between conception and birth, to decide person hood, or human being with equal rights. IMO, the nature of the issue requires that we do that, and to weigh the rights of the various stages 0of development , against the rights of the pregnant woman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=84)