# Abortion-clinic picketers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 6, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935 "2011-05-06T05:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 93
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1841 "2011-05-20T00:26:24Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > You know, my kids do this when we argue. They find some minuscule point to latch onto that has some element of error and focus on that to divert and control the conversation. But they’re teenagers, so I give them some slack. > > Fact remains that I have more respect for pro-life women, women in general I think, to be honorable and responsible than you do for pro-choice women. You hide your contempt poorly. If I were going to nitpick, I could really nitpick. I’m just pointing out to you how that one line is patently false. And, quite frankly, it’s a big deal because pro-choicers tend to rely on emotive arguments, somehow trying to argue that because a woman agonizes over a decision that it somehow makes it “okay”. Aside from that being false, a good portion of women don’t even agonize over having an abortion. In fact, some of them use abortion as a form of birth control, even sometimes having up the five abortions by the time they’re 18. And for what it’s worth, I don’t differentiate based on gender. Though I can’t say I hold anyone in contempt. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1842 "2011-05-20T00:27:42Z")
Again, you utterly missed the point of my post. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1843 "2011-05-20T00:30:11Z")
No, I didn’t miss the point of your post. I actually didn’t, and don’t, care about your story (yes, I’m a cold-hearted bastard). I’m just pointing out to you that the idea that abortion is never an easy, cavalier decision taken by the woman to be quite untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1844 "2011-05-20T00:36:09Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I’m not male. So you say. Hey, guy, you’re so cute when you’re angry!😛 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1845 "2011-05-20T00:36:22Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > No, I didn’t miss the point of your post. I actually didn’t, and don’t, care about your story (yes, I’m a cold-hearted bastard). I’m just pointing out to you that the idea that abortion is never an easy, cavalier decision taken by the woman to be quite untrue. Then the previous post about how pro-Choicers use emotion to justify makes no sense as a response to my post. I was justifying nothing and the emotion was about something else entirely. So stop. It wasnt a reply to you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![classyladyhp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5ac83/32.png) [@classyladyhp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/classyladyhp)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1846 "2011-05-20T00:39:11Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > So you say. > > Hey, guy, you’re so cute when you’re angry!😛 I’m a hermaphrodite:rolleyes: Would you drop it already? You’re making a fool of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1847 "2011-05-20T00:43:53Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Then the previous post about how pro-Choicers use emotion to justify makes no sense as a response to my post. I was justifying nothing and the emotion was about something else entirely. How doesn’t it make sense? Again, I wasn’t responding to your whole post, just the part I quoted. > [@](#): > > So stop. It wasnt a reply to you anyway. I wasn’t under the impression that one can only respond to posts directed towards themselves. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1848 "2011-05-20T00:44:41Z")
> [@Pullet](#): > > We need a “like” button for individual posts. Thank you- that means a lot to me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1849 "2011-05-20T00:44:44Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Except-- get this-- it’s not gibberish. Again, anyone who claims that abortion isn’t a decision that women take cavalierly (sp?) is living in a world entirely of their own fashioning. I doubt you’ve actually interviewed all the women who abort, so I’ll assume you’re just making things up and pretending they’re real. But for this post, I’ll pretend you aren’t, and that you’re correct in that women - all women - who abort their pregnancies do so cavalierly. So what? It’s still not your business, no matter how sad it makes you. > [@](#): > > It’s simply not true, and anyone who would take, like, a minute to either search the internet or talk to people would know it’s not true. I’ve done so, over several months. Never saw this cavalier attitude you’ve pulled out of your ass, not once. Saw a lot of tears, a lot of peaceful religious nuts, and not quite as many religious arsonists, trespassers, and violent attackers. Never saw a single woman treat the matter in the cavalier fashion you claim they do. Now I’ll go back to treating your declaration as something you made up and are just pretending is real. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1850 "2011-05-20T00:46:12Z")
> [@classyladyhp](#): > > I’m a hermaphrodite:rolleyes: Would you drop it already? You’re making a fool of yourself. Pot, meet kettle!😃 ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1851 "2011-05-20T00:51:13Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > And, quite frankly, it’s a big deal because pro-choicers tend to rely on emotive arguments, somehow trying to argue that because a woman agonizes over a decision that it somehow makes it “okay”. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > How doesn’t it make sense? Again, I wasn’t responding to your whole post, just the part I quoted. That is the part that doesn’t make sense. I was not using the difficulty of the decision to make anything “ok”. I was using the difficulty of the decision to show that people can agonize over it and still be pro-choice. Again in reply to a specific statement of CLHP. Plus, just because someone is ok and comfortable with their decision (they don’t have to “agonize”) doesn’t make it trivial. > [@](#): > > I wasn’t under the impression that one can only respond to posts directed towards themselves. I’m issuing no directive. I was asking you to stop and expressing frustration that I was dragged into a semantic discussion that had little to do with my point with the person I wasn’t even speaking to. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1852 "2011-05-20T00:55:08Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I doubt you’ve actually interviewed all the women who abort, so I’ll assume you’re just making things up and pretending they’re real. But for this post, I’ll pretend you aren’t, and that you’re correct in that women - all women - who abort their pregnancies do so cavalierly. As I’m sure you well realize, I was responding to the notion that abortion is never taken as a cavalier decision. I dunno’ where you get that I said that all women who abort do so cavalierly, especially when I just got done saying that people who speak in absolutes shouldn’t be taken seriously. > [@](#): > > I’ve done so, over several months. Never saw this cavalier attitude you’ve pulled out of your ass, not once. Saw a lot of tears, a lot of peaceful religious nuts, and not quite as many religious arsonists, trespassers, and violent attackers. Never saw a single woman treat the matter in the cavalier fashion you claim they do. > > Now I’ll go back to treating your declaration as something you made up and are just pretending is real. I made it up and am pretending it’s real? Kacey Jordan doesn’t exist? [This woman](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ReproductiveHealth/abortion-addict-admits-multiple-abortions-suicide-attempts/story?id=8594347) doesn’t exist? [These girls don’t exist](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1238612/Girls-using-abortion-birth-control.html)?. None of the women who have abortions over and over and over again (did you know that in the U.S., about 7% of abortions performed annually are performed on women receiving their fourth abortion or more?) exist? Yes, you’re right. I just made them all up. (I could throw in anecdotes regarding chicks who’ve flatly stated that they’re abortions were no big deal and that they fully expect to have another in the future, but you’d probably call me a liar and claim that they don’t exist, so I won’t.) > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > That is the part that doesn’t make sense. I was not using the difficulty of the decision to make anything “ok”. I was using the difficulty of the decision to show that people can agonize over it and still be pro-choice. Again in reply to a specific statement of CLHP. Plus, just because someone is ok and comfortable with their decision (they don’t have to “agonize”) doesn’t make it trivial. I read her statement and I read your statement, which was made after a list of circumstances preceding a woman having an abortion. My original comment was directed towards that, and I still stand by it. > [@](#): > > I’m issuing no directive. I was asking you to stop and expressing frustration that I was dragged into a semantic discussion that had little to do with my point with the person I wasn’t even speaking to. I wasn’t arguing semantics. Just pointing out that not all women take abortion as a “serious” decision as you want to lead one to believe. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1853 "2011-05-20T00:59:08Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Except-- get this-- it’s not gibberish. **Again, anyone who claims that abortion isn’t a decision that women take cavalierly** (sp?) is living in a world entirely of their own fashioning. It’s simply not true, and anyone who would take, like, a minute to either search the internet or talk to people would know it’s not true. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > As I’m sure you well realize, I was responding to the notion that abortion is never taken as a cavalier decision. I dunno’ where you get that I said that all women who abort do so cavalierly, especially when I just got done saying that people who speak in absolutes shouldn’t be taken seriously. Sounds like you can also paint your position with a broad brush- your first quote sure seems like your saying abortion is always a cavalier decision, but then you back off on that sweeping statement. (bolding mine). The difference is, I get that you were being sweeping for effect in the context of your larger post, which was so clearly what I was doing as well. Taking something out of context can lead to misrepresentation. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1854 "2011-05-20T01:00:26Z")
What are you talking about? It was this comment that I was replying to! > [@cosmosdan](#): > > You are correct. I’m not looking for it either but I remember it and the basic nature of the comment. A very traumatic personal reason for feeling so strongly about this issue. > > Speculating about age is pretty pointless. Who cares. > [@classyladyhp](#): > > Yes I did have a traumatic experience. Feel free to make fun of that as well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1855 "2011-05-20T01:01:38Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > (I could throw in anecdotes regarding chicks who’ve flatly stated that they’re abortions were no big deal and that they fully expect to have another in the future, but you’d probably call me a liar and claim that they don’t exist, so I won’t.) No, I’d say “who cares?” As I said, it’s not your business or mine. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1856 "2011-05-20T01:04:43Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Sounds like you can also paint your position with a broad brush- your first quote sure seems like your saying abortion is always a cavalier decision, but then you back off on that sweeping statement. (bolding mine). The difference is, I get that you were being sweeping for effect in the context of your larger post, which was so clearly what I was doing as well. Taking something out of context can lead to misrepresentation. Omg, you caught me. I left out a word (It should read, “Again, anyone who claims that abortion isn’t always a decision that women take cavalierly”) by mistake. I guess now that’s some over-arching, evil grand scheme to paint women as soulless, callous, heartless bitches. Considering the fact that I also said that people who make absolute statements shouldn’t be taken seriously, you’d have to be a, well… an idiot to believe I would turn right around and purposely make an absolute statement. > [@The\_Tooth](#): > > No, I’d say “who cares?” As I said, it’s not your business or mine. Who cares? I care. Surely, you would argue that a woman who has 15 abortions in 16 years, or 4 or 5 abortions before she is eighteen, or even half of all abortions per year being repeat abortions to be a very bad thing, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1857 "2011-05-20T01:09:18Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > No, that’s old. [She had another one](http://www.jillstanek.com/2011/04/porn-star-aborting-5th-baby-2nd-this-year/). > > So if you’re willing to have sex for money, you must be pro-choice? Isn’t that like saying that if you have sex for money, that you must be dumb because you can’t get a real job? There’s no correlation between the two. Hell, I ain’t gonna’ lie. If someone were going to pay me, I’d have sex on camera for money 😛 > > Well, no. If you were going to do that, it’d be better to do so on the basis that it’s basically a big appeal to emotion. I’m sticking to my numbers format because I like it 1. Ah, ok. Thank you for providing a link. I’m still impressed that someone who has been in the sex industry since she was legal has only had 5 unintended pregnancies. Apparently, she’s getting an IUD put in. Good for her. 2. What? No. I’m not even sure how you got that from the discussion on this point so far. To summarize my theory: If you are a woman willing to have sex for money on camera, odds are that you have a more causal attitude towards significant life choices as compared to most other women. Like maybe you also use abortion as birth control when most other women would not. Also, your ( **OMG a Black Conservative** ) rapid willingness to have sex on camera for money is, in my opinion, extremely strong evidence that you are male. If you are male, then your point of view on how difficult it is to decide to be a porn star is completely different because you are under an entirely different set of social standards. 3. Ok. So hyperbole is ok so long as its an acknowledge appeal to emotion. That explains all the hyperbole I see from the pro-life camp. Now I’m curious: Do you think that most of the people using hyperbole on this topic demonstrate the ability to distinguish opinion from fact? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1858 "2011-05-20T01:10:21Z")
No, actually I said I knew what you meant and didn’t want to nitpick it! Anyhoo, I am actually happy to concede the point if that is truly what you’re getting at. My statement should now read that abortion is RARELY a cavalier decision… The reason I was sweeping in my statement was a direct response to CLHP previous assertions that abortions were these cavalier decisions that were done because pregnancy was such a terrible “inconvenience”. I was being equally dramatic to counter that and while writing what was, frankly an incredibly painful post to write, went there. Again, the point was to indicate that women weren’t making these trivial little decisions and only pro-lifers understood the sanctity of life. The post was about my experiences with myself and with many women I’ve counseled, so the “never” felt very authentic. But, for the larger issue, I couldnt care less how hard or easy the decision is for any individual woman. That doesn’t change the inherent righteousness of having safe, legal abortions available. > [@](#): > > Considering the fact that I also said that people who make absolute statements shouldn’t be taken seriously, you’d have to be a, well… an idiot to believe I would turn right around and purposely make an absolute statement. I can only go by what you write. People are often inconsistent, especially in the heat of the moment. It doesn’t make me an idiot, to actually believe you mean what you write. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1859 "2011-05-20T01:22:15Z")
**ITD** , I would ask for the privilege of bearing your babies, except for the fact that we’re both female. But, we’d make a bunch of money of the videoed attempted mating. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935/1860 "2011-05-20T01:32:10Z")
> [@Pullet](#): > > **ITD** , I would ask for the privilege of bearing your babies, except for the fact that we’re both female. But, we’d make a bunch of money of the videoed attempted mating. I could use some cash. 😃 If we ever meet, I’d buy you your beverage/tasty treat of choice. ETA: Being nosy, I checked your profile. Your location killed me, because that word is a total private joke in my family. My kids get us rolling on the floor, coming at us, wiggling their finger saying “spleen” in a deep, creepy voice. I’m not even sure why anymore, but one of them once proclaimed that “spleen” is the funniest word ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=92) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-clinic-picketers/580935.md?page=94)