Since most oral contraceptives can be doubled up to equal the effects of the morning after pill (which many anti-abortion groups wrongly consider an abortifacient), I can’t see how this society would allow women to continue taking the Pill. Or using copper IUDs.
Here’s a group that’s moved on to the Pill and other forms of birth control. Most are more subtle.
I’m not sure how many, though. Most women I know who had abortions had them because birth control failed, not because they weren’t careful using it.
I believe this statistic has been refuted. It’s a misquote. The original study actually said that murder is a leading injury-related cause of death among pregnant women (automobile accidents were the actual leader in this category with murder being second). But non-injury-related deaths were more than twice as common as injury-related deaths. cite In reality, a pregnant woman is less likely to be murdered than a non-pregnant woman. cite
While I sometimes think Der Trihs’ opinions are a bit extreme I think he’s probably smack on the mark here…
…and when I first saw that news article I was completely gob-smacked (and considered an RO Pit post).
So while I don’t think outlawing abortion must inevitably lead to a full dystopia, it does appear that some of the same people pushing for it will then push for further and more extreme limitations.
YES. Ectopic pregnancies and stuff like a baby dying in utero is THE REASON why abortion should be legal NO MATTER what.
That’s very sad. I do think that in cases like where there are “potential special needs” the parents need to talk to someone who REALLY knows about the particualr syndrome or birth defect.
Not just a doctor, since even many geneticists are ill informed about various and sundry birth defects. I also think a lot of parents are almost…they want a designer “normal” kid. I have some issues I was born with. I am on some listservs that deal with my issues…I really sometimes want to SLAP the parents who sign on, and start moaning and bitching about their wittle Smashlie having gasp SPESHAL NEEDS!!! These kids are kids who are hard of hearing or who have other relatively mild issues.
I hate how doctors make it seem like ALL birth issues are some giant catasophe or that you can always tell about severe birth defects. Only a small percentage of birth defects are genetic. The rest just happen randomly.
Since adoption is a factor in creating serial killers (30% of serial killers are adopted, as opposed to 2% of the general population) there would be more serial killers and more killing of women.
With more babies available for adoption, more older children would languish in the dreadful foster care system.
Right, I don’t know the volume either, I just don’t think it’s accurate that exactly the same number that are aborted now would be born instead.
No, and some people who have first trimester abortions would miscarry later - or their children would die very young.
But 1 in 4 is huge. Even if you are only increasing the public school burden by 15% instead of 25%, its huge. And when you consider that a lot of the kids LIKELY to enter the school system would be among the neediest - i.e. if we posit that its disadvantaged women who are more likely to get abortions now - they would increase the burden on the schools disproportionally for their numbers.
That is an extraordinary claim if I’ve ever heard one. So we definitely need a citation. Even if you are correct. I’d suspect that there’s a large difference between birth and older child adoptions.
I can’t provide a cite but it sounds reasonable to me. It’s the same factors that Leavitt cited in his book. The type of people who seek abortions tend to be the same type of people who would make poor parents if they didn’t get the abortions. There’s common factors between the two groups: poverty, poor education, being underaged, being unmarried, drug and alcohol use, poor health, family problems. So if you decrease the amount of people in this group who get abortions you increase the number who become poor parents or put their babies up for adoption. And poor parenting is a factor in children being raised poorly and going on to do anti-social things like become serial killers.
The adoption is probably not the biggest factor, one factor seems to be birthparent genetics. If birth dad is scum, there seems to be some “nature” that can’t necessarily be overcome by “nurture.” I think the stat is off though. But it is true that serial killers are far more likely to be adoptees. And there are some other variables - Ted Bundy counts - he was adopted by his stepfather - but raised by mainly bio relatives. And it isn’t universally true. International adoptees don’t seem to be any more or less violent than other people.
My post is my cite; yeah that’ll do it. :dubious:
Making abortion illegal will bring about a return to women seeking "Back street abortions"when desperate.
I believe that these resulted in a quite high death rate amongst the women involved.
Also I would fear for any child born as a result of a woman being raped.
posting to subscribe
You seem to unfortunately conflating all people who are against abortion into the same camp. There are plenty of people who would like to eliminate the need for abortions by better access to birth control, adoptions, health care for pregnant women and children, and childcare. Not to mention workplace laws that would stop penalizing women in terms of their career advancement when they take time off to give birth to and/or raise children.
How many women do you know who **enjoy **getting abortions? IMO, abortion is a symptom of a system that isn’t working–women who don’t want to get pregnant don’t have access to the resources they need, and women who might otherwise choose to keep a child can’t afford to do it.
I would like to reduce the need for abortions, but I don’t think that there’s going to be a way to eliminate the need any time soon. I think that more reliable birth control for both men and women will help. Condoms are good, and it’s wonderful that so many people realize that condoms help prevent the spread of disease as well as pregnancy, but I have a daughter who was conceived while her dad and I were using condoms and contraceptive foam together. NO method of birth control is 100% effective. Even women who are (voluntarily) abstinent can be raped.
Allowing better access to the morning after pill would also help reduce the need for abortions. Sometimes, people might not plan on having sex, but are swept away in the heat of the moment.
I would like to reduce the need for abortions, but I don’t think that there’s going to be a way to eliminate the need any time soon. I think that more reliable birth control for both men and women will help. Condoms are good, and it’s wonderful that so many people realize that condoms help prevent the spread of disease as well as pregnancy, but I have a daughter who was conceived while her dad and I were using condoms and contraceptive foam together. NO method of birth control is 100% effective. Even women who are (voluntarily) abstinent can be raped.
Allowing better access to the morning after pill would also help reduce the need for abortions. Sometimes, people might not plan on having sex, but are swept away in the heat of the moment.
But but but… there would be more Respect for Life!
But none of that has anything to do with the OP. This isn’t about people trying to make abortions unnecessary; this is about the government forcing women to breed against their will. And I see little evidence that there’s “plenty of people”, or even a significant number who want to outlaw abortion and have even the slightest concern for women or children. The simple fact is, anywhere in the world where these people get what they want, the result is suffering and death for both of those groups while the anti-abortion people either look the other way or outright gloat. Or are the ones inflicting the suffering and death in question. Because that’s the point of the movement.
I find claims by the anti-abortionists that they are looking out for the welfare of children about as believable as claims by racist groups that they are just looking out for the welfare of white people, or of anti-gay groups that they are trying to “save marriage” by refusing to let gays marry.
Agreed. Making abortions illegal right now wouldn’t do a damn thing, other than drive a lot of women to get illegal, dangerous abortions. Everybody should be working together to make abortion unecessary–unfortunately, no one wants to be sensible, they just want to scream from their own sides of the line. A good number of pro-life people, (though not all, as **Der Trihs **claims) are opposed to all forms of birth control and are just trying to get rid of extramarital sex altogether. And I’m sure a lot of pro-choice people are afraid that if they admit that abortion is, objectively, not such a great thing, that it will be a slippery slope to recriminalization.
Apparently you’re not looking very hard, then.