# Abortion is wrong **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151 "2003-12-20T08:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/21 "2003-12-20T17:29:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*-Again, why is that any different than any other death? A cow slaughtered for beef, a chicken for it’s meat, a lab rat to see if the medicine worked, that duck for its liver? \*\* Because it’s a human being. Unless, of course, you think that gunning down a bunch of children in Columbine is morally equivalent to slaughtering a bunch of Turkeys in November. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/22 "2003-12-20T17:37:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > **Because it’s a human being.** And once again we have reached what seems to be the main difference between those who are pro-choice and those who are pro-life. Let’s see if I can summarize: Pro-life: A fetus is a human being and killing it is murder the same way that killing a baby is murder. Pro-choice: A fetus is a human being, but it’s not a _person_, and it’s killing _people_ that’s wrong, not killing human beings in general. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/23 "2003-12-20T17:51:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Because it’s a human being. Cite? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/24 "2003-12-20T18:23:34Z")
Dork! 🙂 A fetus is a _potential_ human being. With all the greatness and suckiness that entails. And in my opinion, human potential (to build, create, what-have-you) is the only thing that gives this weary world meaning. Who can tell but that the man or woman to invent fusion power or teleportation might not have been cut off in the womb? But, that said, I don’t see a way around this problem: I don’t feel morally empowered to make decisions for another person. It’s legal…and it should stay that way. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/25 "2003-12-20T18:43:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Cite? 😛 \*\* > [@](#): > > Worldnet Dictionary. > Noun 1. human being - any living or extinct member of the family Hominidae Is a fetus or embryo not “living”? What “species” would it be?😉 😛 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/26 "2003-12-20T19:31:27Z")
Well, up to a certain point, a fetus has no heartbeat, no brain activity, and no voluntary movement, and it doesn’t start to breathe till it’s on the outside. If I had no heartbeat or respiration or brain activity, I’d be dead, as in “not living”, right? That’s why people tend to be more comfortable with very early term abortions than later term ones–because the embryo or fetus falls into that nomansland between what we usually consider “living” vs. “not living”. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/27 "2003-12-20T20:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*I understand it’s not a decision one enters into lightly, nor is it something one ought to make a regular habit of, but why would an abortion be considered a “bad” thing? \*\* Your question implies its own answer. If abortion is not a “bad” thing, why shouldn’t someone make a regular habit of it if she wishes? Why shouldn’t it be entered into lightly? Care to explain? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/28 "2003-12-20T20:19:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > \*\*And once again we have reached what seems to be the main difference between those who are pro-choice and those who are pro-life. Let’s see if I can summarize: > > Pro-life: A fetus is a human being and killing it is murder the same way that killing a baby is murder. > > Pro-choice: A fetus is a human being, but it’s not a _person_, and it’s killing _people_ that’s wrong, not killing human beings in general. \*\* I don’t think you speak for all pro-choice people. There are those on this very board who have no trouble with abortions right up to the moment before birth, because the “personhood” of the child is not what their belief hinges on. For example, some strenuously argue that the mother gets to decide regarding anything that is contained within her body, whether that entity is a person or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/29 "2003-12-20T20:22:34Z")
Oh, and there are those on this board who have actually argued that a fetus is not a human being too. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/30 "2003-12-20T20:28:11Z")
I think abortion is wrong. It’s killing, murder etc. However, whenever I’ve tried to get pro-life folks (and I count myself among them) to go into detail about how this would work, I just get silence. What would the law say? What would the punnishments be? How could you prevent illegal abortions? What would the social consequences be? How could we minimize unplanned pregnancies? ETc, etc, etc. I HATE the idea of abortions. It’s bad and wrong all around. But until I can have a good feeling that making it illegal would improve things, I’ll just have to sit here firmly on a fence. And it’s not a comfortable place to be. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/31 "2003-12-20T20:32:08Z")
I see abortion as an individual choice. For myself, I wouldn’t choose it…but then I didn’t have too when my wife and I were in the child having stage. From a society, I think its ‘wrong’ to NOT allow folks to make their own moral choices…its what a free society is all about. So, IMO, one should be able to choose whether they can have an abortion or not as it suits THEM. Its THEIR choice IMO, their decision, their own moral code they must follow. And I think its dead wrong for anyone to make someone elses moral or ethical choice for them on this issue. And I’ll tell you…it sure beats the ‘good old days’ where an unwanted baby was born and left on a hill side somewhere for the wolves to get at. By a long fucking shot. Or the equally ‘good old days’ with back ally abortions by butchers. So, it boils down to, I think abortion is ‘wrong’ (for me and my wife, as my INDIVIDUAL choice), I think choice is ‘right’ for a free society (something that is up to each individual, and should be protected as such), and I think the OP is poorly worded to bring the pro-choice people out to say ‘abortion is good’. Reguards, XT ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/32 "2003-12-20T20:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stratocaster \* > **I don’t think you speak for all pro-choice people.** True. My characterization is probably more accurate for moderate pro-choice proponents. > [@](#): > > \*\*For example, some strenuously argue that the mother gets to decide regarding anything that is contained within her body, whether that entity is a person or anything else. \*\* That is something that I don’t agree with completely. My belief is that you have to weigh many different factors against each other to reach a decision. It’s not as cut-and-dried as “my body; my decision” because, at some point, you begin dealing with someone _else’s_ body as well. When that point is, however, seems to be a sticking point between the pro-choice and pro-life camps, with the three most common points being “conception”, “the onset of brain activity”, and “birth”. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/33 "2003-12-20T20:41:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by autz \* > \*\*I think abortion is wrong. It’s killing, murder etc. > > However, whenever I’ve tried to get pro-life folks (and I count myself among them) to go into detail about how this would work, I just get silence. What would the law say? What would the punnishments be? How could you prevent illegal abortions? What would the social consequences be? How could we minimize unplanned pregnancies? ETc, etc, etc.\*\* This has been discussed on this board many times. I for one don’t know why it’s so difficult to envision how abortion bans would work when they were in place as recently as 1972. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/34 "2003-12-20T20:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > \*\*I see abortion as an individual choice. For myself, I wouldn’t choose it…but then I didn’t have too when my wife and I were in the child having stage. From a society, I think its ‘wrong’ to NOT allow folks to make their own moral choices…its what a free society is all about. \*\* This is just silly. There is not a single law on the books that does not impose a moral choice. Are you against every law in existence? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/35 "2003-12-20T21:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stratocaster \* > \*\*This has been discussed on this board many times. I for one don’t know why it’s so difficult to envision how abortion bans would work when they were in place as recently as 1972. \*\* I tried to get pro-life folks to detail these things in a GD thread and didn’t get much that was helpful or convincing. I DID get another pro-life person who said she’d gotten the same lack of response to the practical questions. I would would be willing to participate, I would be happy to start another thread with my specific questions. The world has changed a lot in the last 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/36 "2003-12-20T21:31:34Z")
**Abortions for some, miniature American flags for everyone else!** Seriously though, count me in the “legal, safe and rare” category. I would much prefer that abortions be rendered unnecessary, first by more responsible behavior and then by the development of feasible fetal transplants, but, like it or not – _legal_ or not – abortions will continue to happen regardless of our individual or collective opinions here. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/37 "2003-12-20T22:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stratocaster \* > \*\*Your question implies its own answer. If abortion is not a “bad” thing, why shouldn’t someone make a regular habit of it if she wishes? Why shouldn’t it be entered into lightly? Care to explain? \*\* -Certainly. For the most part, an abortion is still a surgical procedure, with it’s own risks. Even simple, common procedures like having ones’ wisdom teeth removed have their share of risks. That’s not something one should take casually, even in these days of strip-mall cosmetic surgeons. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/38 "2003-12-20T23:04:45Z")
Mandatory abortions for all! Some people can have tiny american flags, too. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/39 "2003-12-21T00:59:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **The OP is asking a bogus question. It’s set up specifically to bait those who are pro-choice into essentially stating that abortion is “good,” which is not the position of most pro-choicers.** > > No, I wanted to discuss something without crafting some big idea or ridiculous premise to do so. I wanted a no frills, to the bones disussion of the issue. > For the record, I do not intend to bait anyone in to saying that abortion is good, happy happy, yay for abortion. I don’t feel this way and I would be hard pressed to find anyone who does. Sorry if that wasn’t clear, but I certaintly don’t want people thinking that I run around with a “yay kill babies” attitude. > > \*\*If I don’t think something is “wrong” that does not mean that I must think it’s “right.” I think abortion is a morally neutral act. It’s simply a termination of pregnancy before it produces a child. It has no greater moral significance to me than any other surgery. > > What _is_ wrong is any attempt to control women’s bodies and make those choices for them. \*\* Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/40 "2003-12-21T01:14:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xtisme \* > \*\*and I think the OP is poorly worded to bring the pro-choice people out to say ‘abortion is good’. > > Reguards, > XT \*\* OK, you may have me on “poorly worded”, but please no more comments about me thinking “abortion is good”. If I didnt really want to hear dissenting view points, would I have posted this here? Where I know for a fact everyone has different viewpoints? I DON’T think abortion is good. It is hurtful to me for people to assume that without asking me to clairify my post first. When I composed the question, I assumed people would take the “right” or “wrong” to apply to the statement “Abortion is Wrong”, not the act itself. Then I assumed that the awnsers would be extrapolated (sp?) upon to include all sides of the issue. The issue id very personal and emotional for me, and every so often I would like to re-examine it by throwing to the finest minds of the internet. Sorry if you found me misleading. I am enjoying reading your responses, but now I am upset so I am taking a break from this thread for 24 hours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151.md?page=3)