# Abortion is wrong **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151 "2003-12-20T08:58:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/121 "2003-12-24T22:27:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WaryEri \* > \*\*IWLN, you’re a saint. I may not agree with your position, but your continued graceful responses to a truly graceless dogpiling has been a pleasure to read (never thought I’d apply THAT word to an abortion debate). \*\* Whaaaaaaa? I see two posters engaging in debate with IWLN, Stratocaster and me. I’m not exactly sure what is “graceless” about the questions and responses in this thread. Two posters. Two. **THAT** is a “graceless dogpile” Wow. Just wow. Happy Holidays from this dogpiler. I trust that IWLN will survive this brutal inquisition. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/122 "2003-12-24T22:59:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*As I’ve noted before, I can’t take seriously the claim that someone believes that abortion is as bad as a cold blooded murder of a grown human being. \*\* It is serious. It is just as bad. It is murder. You are killing a human being. Murder is murder. Killing a baby is killing a baby. Doesnt matter the age when you murder a person, 90 years old, 1 month old, or 4 weeks after conception. No matter either where the baby is geographically, inside or outside of the womb. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/123 "2003-12-24T23:08:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stratocaster \* > This is still dodging. You are the one who has stated that a problem with an abortion ban is that it would not eliminate abortions, I think. The laws against the above acts have not eliminated these crimes either. Neither do these laws affect every segment of society equally. And still, it is only abortion, apparently, that you feel should NOT be a law. And you have still not explained why a law against burglary is OK–though it affects the poor much more than the rich, and has not eliminated burglaries–but a law against abortions would be wrong. I’m not dodging anything. I just don’t know exactly why you’re so fixated on comparing abortion to all the other laws. It is very different. Putting a law into place that is going to have little affect on the action, other than making it more akward, doesn’t seem productive. I guess there’s another side to it. They won’t just be wrong for terminating their pregnancy, they’ll also be violating the law. Why does that work for you? > [@](#): > > I certainly don’t think it has _less_ value. But you want to legally determine what the women’s morals should be? > [@](#): > > It’s the provider I would prosecute because that is the most politically expedient and practical way of dealing with it. BTW, a mother emotionally unable to deal with child rearing needn’t do so, you understand? It’s not hard enough to find a good provider now, let’s see if we can make it worse. A mother emotionally unable to deal with child rearing may not be able to deal with giving their child away either. > [@](#): > > It’s not obvious. You still haven’t answered my question as to whether or not you count the unborn in determining what is good for the majority. Go ahead and re-read it and please answer. Emotionally, I do count the unborn. The women don’t want them, but you want to make them have them anyway. The unborn are not here yet and you have yet to come up with a workable plan which considers what to do about that. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say it wasn’t possible that women could be prosecuted. But that wouldn’t be a primary objective, nor would it be common. I don’t think prosecuting desperate and deluded women is an effective practice. What about the one’s who aren’t desperate and deluded, that only don’t agree when life begins? > [@](#): > > And yet you seem to have this requirement only for abortion laws. At this point, this is effectively a meaningless debating point, IMO. You hold a position, but then again you don’t. Well, you have me there. I never thought your comparisons had any validity in this issue. I am content with leaving the existing laws and their inforcement to someone more capable than I. > [@](#): > > If it’s the law of the land, he doesn’t get to make that decision. It’s the same with euthanasia laws and countless other limitations on what a physician may prescribe as treatment. That’s obvious. It would then be illegal for him to follow his conscious. > [@](#): > > You count them how? Again, you have not answered my question. If they are part of your “majority,” for the second time I’ll ask you to explain how permitting abortions is the best for the majority. And why do you think abortion is uniquely a province of personal decision where society may not impose a restriction if you do believe that the unborn are people with rights? There are actually people in this world who believe that parents should be able to kill infants for any reason. Would you interfere with this decision? If so, why? They simply don’t believe what you do. Why not let them make their own choices? I never said that permitting abortion is best for the majority. Abortion is never best IMHO. I stated that laws would be ineffective and biased. > [@](#): > > The “flaws” you refer to are an inherent nature of virtually every law on the book. There is no “perfect” law, one where every person is affected exactly the same, one that eliminates the proscribed activity just by virtue of the grandeur of the law’s wording. Those laws simply do not exist. Why would you make this a requirement of abortion laws, then? Already answered. > [@](#): > > She may or may not be. I believe there are desperate women who are not thinking clearly where prison would serve no purpose. But I believe in virtually every instance, imprisoning women would make the possibility of an abortion ban less likely. Most people would find it distasteful. Hell, so would I, for the most part. I find abortion _and_ punishment distasteful. What puzzles me is since you have equated abortion with burglars, murderers, rapists, etc., I don’t understand why you think the crime of abortion deserves less punishment. Why do you call it a ban instead of what it is and why are you willing to compromise on punishment, when you think they are guilty of taking a life? > [@](#): > > So, if you want an anaology, I would point to drug laws. In many jurisdictions, posession of small amounts is not a felony and would not result in prison time. For the large provider, OTOH, it’s another story. Law enforcement pursues the dealers vigorously and major dealers get big sentences. I’m not saying drugs and abortions are analogous, by the way. I’m just trying to respond to your fixation on the logistical details surrounding an abortion ban. This is how it might work. Your response to “my fixation” is noted. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Workable in the sense that this law must eliminate “flaws” that no other law is required to? That would be nice. > [@](#): > > Why? Why isn’t this interfering with the mother’s personal decision? Why do you get to do so in this manner, but anything further is right out? Viability? The three month cut off is in the best interest of the mother. Getting an abortion after you feel the life inside you is harder to recover from. Viability has to be an issue as long as abortion exists. Abortion can be traumatic enough, without complication. > [@](#): > > What does that have to do with the fact that other people disagree with your morality? BTW, at what point do you stop deluding yourself? Think of what you just said. You’re pro-choice, no matter how much it comforts you to think of yourself as pro-life. > Sorry, but your philosophy regarding abortion seems terribly inconsistent and damned convenient. My morality is between myself and my G-d. He makes it possible for me to be compassionate and non-judgmental. I’m not pro-choice, but I can understand why you think so. Everything is just not black and white. Until this thread came up, I had to some extent insulated myself from a problem I have no control over. The statistics for the last 30 years are heart-breaking. I’m not sure why you think this is a convenient stand for me. My children are grown, enthusiastically having many children of their own. They are all vehemently opposed to abortion. This issue probably will never personally affect me. So what do you think this _convenient_ agenda is about for me? This is not a legal issue. This is a moral issue. Fifty years ago, people gave birth and raised children who were not taught to value every moral right and aspect of the sanctity of life. Forty million lives lost, due to that. So while every fiber of my being screams to stop this horrible thing, I can’t make other people feel the way I do. I can’t make their moral judgments for them. The only thing I can do is try not to make it worse for them than it already is. You think I somehow don’t value those babies and you’re wrong. I do have infinite faith in G-d and know that those children are safe. So if I think the mothers have equal right to my concern, that is my right. I have not failed in any way to examine and even agree in part with your feelings on this. Have you heard anything I’ve said? ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/124 "2003-12-24T23:13:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*Whaaaaaaa? > > I see two posters engaging in debate with IWLN, Stratocaster and me. I’m not exactly sure what is “graceless” about the questions and responses in this thread. > > Two posters. > > Two. > > **THAT** is a “graceless dogpile” > > Wow. Just wow. > > Happy Holidays from this dogpiler. I trust that IWLN will survive this brutal inquisition. > > :rolleyes: \*\* Gasp!! Just barely. Have a nice Christmas.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/125 "2003-12-24T23:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*(Note: I am not talking about people who like abortion and would kill the child regardless of whether or not it might harm the mother, I am talking about regular mothers. ) I know there are people out there who will kill others, this is not the same thing. \*\* Who LIKES abortion?? Who?? Who?? Name somebody. “Regular mothers” sheesh. There are women all over the place who have had children years after having an abortion. I consider them “regular mothers”. I’m very sorry you don’t. Furthermore, just because a woman chooses not to make a sacrifice you would does not give you the right to self-rightously damn them. It is not your life at risk, so not your choice to make. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/126 "2003-12-25T01:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by torie \* > Who LIKES abortion?? Who?? Who?? Name somebody. Shhh, it’s rude to point out the stupidity of someone else’s position. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/127 "2003-12-25T01:31:30Z")
People that dont “like” abortion, dont do it. People that dont like robbing, stealing, murdering others, dont do it. The 30 million who have done it, must “like” it, else they wouldnt have done it. If you want names, then look up the 30 million who have killed their babies and look up the doctors who have done it. I think murdering any person or any baby is wrong and that is my unchangable opinion. There are no gray areas, no excuses, no justification, no arguement, no buts, no negotiation. The baby is dead. The mother(and doctor ) killed it. The baby once had life, it had a future, and someone ended that life, and now the baby’s body is decaying and rotting. I dont consider any mother who kills her child a “regular mother”. I dont care if you think mothers who murder their babies to be “regular” or not. You can, but I wont. I am not “damming them”, I am just calling them for what they are : they are baby killers. They killed/murdered a human being. They murdered their own child. I already said there are too many baby killers to be able to punish them, so I am not advocating that it be made illegal, but I dont have to like anybody who kills their own child. You will never change my mind. I will never consider killing babies to be ok, so we will disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/128 "2003-12-25T01:40:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*and now the baby’s body is decaying and rotting. \*\* Actually, I think a lot of fetusses are disposed of in incinerators. In any case, you’re free to use the term “baby killers”. A number of us, though, don’t define “baby” and “killer” the same way you do. Fortunately, the laws don’t either. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/129 "2003-12-25T02:04:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Actually, I think a lot of fetusses are disposed of in incinerators. > > In any case, you’re free to use the term “baby killers”. A number of us, though, don’t define “baby” and “killer” the same way you do. Fortunately, the laws don’t either. \*\* Hey **Bryan** , You’re supposed to put water on the “flames”, not gasoline. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Rodrigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Rodrigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodrigo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/130 "2003-12-25T02:36:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > \*\*Is killing in self defense always wrong, because it is murder? Hypothetically, if a woman is suffering complications from pregnancy that are likely to kill her if she does not abort, wouldn’t such an abortion be equivalent to killing in self defense? \*\* Murder and self-defence are different things, yet, I see your point. Abortion is still wrong even if the pregnancy endangers a mother’s life, what you do in that case is not to DIRECTLY cause the death of the foetus, but you take it out and try to save it (even if death is sure). That’s the difference between death as the means and death as the unintended (yet unavoidable) result. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/131 "2003-12-25T03:55:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IWLN \* > \*\*Hey **Bryan** , You’re supposed to put water on the “flames”, not gasoline. :eek: \*\* Gosh, are you under the impression I could drive Susanann _further_ from the pro-choice position? Heavens! In any case, I respect freedom, including freedom to abort a fetus, or to call the fetus-aborter a pointlessly inflammatory term like “baby killer”, which I incidentally feel is inaccurate. I just hope no-one rises to Susanann’s bait, or sinks to her level, or whatever metaphor is fitting, and turn this thread into a simple bout of name-calling. Judging from the thread’s title, I think that’s what the OP wanted all along. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/132 "2003-12-25T04:01:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*People that dont “like” abortion, dont do it. > > People that dont like robbing, stealing, murdering others, dont do it. > > The 30 million who have done it, must “like” it, else they wouldnt have done it. \*\* I consider myself pro life. There is no way I can agree with or support these kind of statements. Furthermore, I think it does the pro life viewpoint no good to be pushing that particular line of thinking. People do acts that “they don’t like” all the time. Often times, they are referred to as “necessary evils” or “the lesser of two evils” or some other term. (I recognize that there is a spectrum of opinions from the women who have had abortions ranging from neutral or “not such a big deal” up to traumatizing events.) If a family member becomes seriously mentally ill, for example, and I have to commit that person to hospitalized psychiatric care against his/her wishes…do you suppose that I would “like” doing that? Note that I am using this example only to rebut the notion that folks **only** do actions that they “like”, I am not comparing the action to havin an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/133 "2003-12-25T04:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > **People that dont “like” abortion, dont do it.** I would beg to differ. > [@](#): > > **People that dont like robbing, stealing, murdering others, dont do it.** I don’t like stealing, but if my family were starving, and I had absolutely no way to buy food, then I would steal. I don’t like murdering, but if someone attacked me or my family with the intent to kill, I would kill them if doing so were necessary to stop them. > [@](#): > > **The 30 million who have done it, must “like” it, else they wouldnt have done it.** In the Real World, you don’t always get a choice between what you like and what you don’t like. Often the choice is between what you don’t like, and what you like even _less_. > [@](#): > > **There are no gray areas, no excuses, no justification, no arguement, no buts, no negotiation.** So extenuating circumstances are lost on you? For example, someone who kills in self defense is still a murderer, and should get life in prison (or the death penalty)? > [@](#): > > **The baby once had life, it had a future, and someone ended that life, and now the baby’s body is decaying and rotting.** You don’t know if the baby had a future or not. Maybe it would have been a Nobel Prize winning scientist. Maybe it would have been a serial killer. Maybe it would have been stillborn. We can play the “what might have been” game all day, but in the end I believe that the mother’s right to be pregnant (or not) as she chooses overrides the fetus’ right to live – up until the point that the fetus’ brain starts operating, and it becomes an actual _person_ as opposed to a collection of tissues. But that’s my own opinion, and I don’t expect you to buy into it any more than I buy into your “ignoring extenuating circumstances” foolishness… > [@](#): > > **. . . I dont have to like anybody who kills their own child.** So, hypothetically speaking, a woman whose life is threatened by a pregnancy, and who will die if the fetus is not removed (and the fetus is too premature to possibly survive outside of the womb) has two choices: Not abort and die, or live and have you not like them. I know which one _I_ would choose. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/134 "2003-12-25T04:16:49Z")
So, in the end, as always, it comes down to three questions. When is a fetus a human being? (Before fertilization? Remember, parthenogensis in human beings is technically possible) When does the right of the fetus to continue existing override the right of a mother to control her own destiny and body? And, of course, if two people disagree about the answer to those two questions above… who is right? Should we make laws more or less restrictive? I hate abortion. I think that it would be good if all pregnancies came to term, that all children would be raised in loving homes. But it’s not my place to tell someone they can’t have one. I feel that the option of the woman to _have_ an abortion should exist… and if the woman truly feels that it’s wrong, then they can simply _not have one_. I understand that Susanann thinks that all fetuses are living beings, and I understand that she thinks they have immortal souls. But the question of an immortal soul is something that can never be answered, until after death, so we must live with what we can look at in this world. Susanann, why must you inflict your religious views on others, to the point of advocating laws that force people to behave in one way or another? ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/135 "2003-12-25T04:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rodrigo \* > **Abortion is still wrong even if the pregnancy endangers a mother’s life, what you do in that case is not to DIRECTLY cause the death of the foetus, but you take it out and try to save it (even if death is sure).** So shooting someone in the head in self defense is wrong, but shooting them in the head and then giving them CPR (even though their brains no longer contained within their skull) is okay? If death is certain, then attempting so save a life is morally the same as not attempting to save a life (_especially_ if you put that life into the un-savable position in the first place). > [@](#): > > \*\*That’s the difference between death as the means and death as the unintended (yet unavoidable) result. \*\* If it’s unavoidable, and you _know_ that it’s unavoidable, then it _must_ be the intended result. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/136 "2003-12-25T04:28:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > Susanann, why must you inflict your religious views on others, to the point of advocating laws that force people to behave in one way or another? Well, I disagree that Susanann is inflicting anything on anybody. Anyone who feels they are being “inflicted” upon is far too fragile a person to use a computer and should be given a pacifier immediately. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/137 "2003-12-25T04:52:56Z")
I’m sorry. Why do you think it would be a good idea to enforce your religious ideas on others, Susanann, to the point of advocating laws that force people to behave in one way or another? Better, Bryan? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/138 "2003-12-25T05:02:34Z")
Allll better. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/139 "2003-12-25T05:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > It is serious. It is just as bad. It is murder. You are killing a human being. Murder is murder. Killing a baby is killing a baby. Doesnt matter the age when you murder a person, 90 years old, 1 month old, or 4 weeks after conception. No matter either where the baby is geographically, inside or outside of the womb. I don’t think this logic even remotely makes sense. But that’s not particularly interesting. What is interesting is that I don’t think YOU really and truly believe it either, as I noted. You say it. But I don’t think you really react like you would if adult people were being slaughtered all around you and the police did nothing: even prevented you from interfereing. If that was happening all around me, I certainly wouldn’t be calmly chit chatting about the rightness or wrongness of it on a messageboard. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151/140 "2003-12-25T05:55:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > **I don’t think you really react like you would if adult people were being slaughtered all around you and the police did nothing: even prevented you from interfereing.** I have to agree. Susanann said: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Susanann_ > **I am not advocating that [abortion] be made illegal. . . .** However, if women were regularly killing 6-month-old babies, it’s pretty much a given that **Susanann** _would_ advocate that it be made illegal. So yeah, it’s obvious from her reaction that **Susanann** doesn’t truly equate abortion with the murder of a baby. Maybe it comes close, but she clearly consideres it to be a seperate case that isn’t _quite_ as bad as the murder of a non-fetus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-is-wrong/220151.md?page=8)