What are you, some kind of hothouse orchid?
HI everyone! New to this board and had to post on this subject because I feel very strongly about it.
As someone stated earlier, there is not a law anywhere that doesn’t legislate morality. Smoking, drinking, prostititution, the list is endless.
I consider myself to be pro-choice. That does not mean pro-abortion. I wish that a fool-proof method of birth control existed so we wouldn’t have to be discussing this. Until that time comes, if it ever does, society has to deal with abortions. Women have had abortions since the beginning of time, and will continue to do so, even if the Bush administration manages to overturn Roe v. Wade.
I can recite to you many horror stories that my mother told me of what it was like before Roe, how she drove her friend to Florida (from Texas) to have an abortion performed by an exiled Cuban doctor. My mother and her friend met two Cubans at the airport in Miami, were blindfolded and then driven to the place where the abortion was performed. This man did happend to be a real doctor, but because of the political climate in the 60s was unable to get a licence to practice here in the states. So he did illegal abortions. No woman should have to go through something like this because she chooses not to become mother. My mother and her friend could have been raped or killed.
So not only do I think that abortion should be legal, I agree with someone else who said that it should be free. The cost of the abortion is FAR cheaper than paying 18 years of welfare for the child of a woman in poverty.
Bob…er Stratocaster seems to be covering the bases nicely, but TARNATION FUNKYMADENA…
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What happened to the “COLD” in FUNKY-COLD-MADENA?
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Please lose the caps lock and please work on phrasing your point a little more…um…clearly?
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Your point (and golly, it IS such an original point)
I assume you are currently sheltering victims of domestic violence?
If not, I assume you could care less about victims of domestic violence…because by your above stated criteria, unless you physically provide for their needs, you can’t posit an opinion that domestic violence should be illegal? (Unless…you know…you don’t mind the hypocricy stuff… :rolleyes: )
BTW…love how you won’t even permit pro life folks to have an opinion contrary to yours…
Taking that pesky little first amendment right away from me, huh?
I’m all for sexually mature “adults” taking responsiblity for their actions which includes using birth control properly, abstinence, or sterilization.
Personally, I like to see pro-choicers own up to where they stand on the issue which is pro-abortion, isn’t it?
funkymadena
Read my first paragraph fifty times. If needed, read it two hundred times.
Even if you do use birth control “properly” it can STILL fail, leaving you facing an unintended pregnancy. Even sterilization can fail. Even married people face unwanted pregnancies. What then? Burden the welfare system? Burden the parents? Pregnancy takes a huge toll on a woman, physically, mentally, emotionally. No woman should be forced to endure something she never wanted to happen in the first place.
I know you are going to say “Well put the baby up for adoption.” And I say again that no woman should have to endure 9 months of a pregnancy that she never intended to happen.
If you’ve been reading the thread, a few people have already stated that their position is pro-choice even though they’re anti-abortion.
No, it isn’t. Tell you what; define the term “pro-abortion” and us pro-choicers might tell you if it’s descriptive of us or not. One caveat, though, if enough of us say your particular definition of “pro-abortion” is not accurate, you have to stop using it or at least stop equating it with “pro-choice”.
This should be good.
Is patronizing someone who states a valid positon how this great debates thing works?
I am opposed to abortions in general, but not as opposed as I am to:
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Not allowing the mother to make this decision for herself until the point of viability.
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Self-righteousness.
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Deadbeat dads
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A non-supportive community after the unwanted child is born
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Anyone other than the mother choosing the life of the baby over the life of the mother
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Whole bunches of other things
FUNKYMADENA, welcome to SDMB.
By definition, “pro-choice” means just that. CHOICE. Carry the pregnancy to term or abort it.
Pro-abortion would mean that you think all pregnancies should end in abortion. That’s gonna get us nowhere fast!
Some “pro-lifers” say they approve of abortion in the case of rape or incest. HUH?! Talk about hypocrisy. I’d have more respect for pro-lifers if they said that NO ONE should have an abortion. If it is okay for a woman who has been raped to have an abortion, then it should be okay for anyone to have an abortion. To single out the means of conception in deciding whether to abort or not, those pro-lifers are contradicting themselves. They say that all babies deserve life, then they say, well, only those babies not conceived by rape deserve to live, or only those babies not conceived by incest deserve to live. They can’t have it both ways.
I truly wish abortion were not necessary. Until there is a foolproof method of contraception, there will be unwanted pregnancies.
I read a quote from someone I can’t remember now, but it says “If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.”
Is unnecessarily quoting an entire post for no discernible reason how this great debates thing works?
Now, technically speaking, patronizing someone with a valid position requires them to have an actual valid position first, and telling people that they have no right to an opinion unless they are directly involved in what they are expressing an opinion about is not a valid position, as beagledave rightly pointed out.
Not taking a stand on “right” or “wrong”, but can someone point me to the vast hordes of women having twice a week abortions?
This sort of claim is made, and I’m really really dubious of it.
I once knew a young lady who made the decision to abort a pregnancy. This was while I was in college. I drove her and her then boyfriend to the clinic and walked them past the lines of protesters right outside (this was before they had to be farther down the street)…
The procedure took a few hours, from the time she entered till the time she left and it wiped her out. She was pale and felt sick and weak for days after. I mean… she could barely walk for the next few days and had severe cramps and other issues for a while after.
My point is, that from personal experience I don’t think it’s a decision any woman ever enters into lightly, and it sure as heck isn’t something I could imagine a woman doing more than once in any kind of a casual way. I do know that my friends girlfriend was an emotional wreck for months after, and I do know that they (boyfriend and girlfriend) were conscientious as all hell about contraception after that.
I’ve known a few women who have had a single abortion, but I don’t think I know any that have had multiple abortions. It was never (in my observation) like going down to the dentists and getting your teeth cleaned as some portray it. It was more like going in for knee surgery. It might be an outpatient procedure, but you ain’t driving yourself home and you are going to be hurting like hell for quite a while after.
So please, someone, show me these women running on down to the clinic twice a week as an alternative to using a condom. Or can we all agree that argument is a cheapshot load of crap?
Regards,
-Bouncer-
PS: My experiences with this date from the early/mid nineties or so so I’ve no idea if procedures have changed since then.
Welllllll, I hesitate to bring it up, but such women do exist (even though the “twice a week” hyperbole, obviously, does not). There is a small number of women in the U.S. who have had multiple abortions, even if the vast majority have had none, or at most one.
I agree that pointing at the behaviour of a few is a piss-poor reason to restrict the legitimate concerns of the many.
Uh, what?
First point was a joke…obviously.
Second point was a request to not use all cap locks and to present her (I think) point more clearly.
Third point was to rebut her notion (with an example) that I am not entitled to my opinion.
Which of the above three do you find problematic, so that I can further address your concerns?
This is my own theory…but…
I sometimes feel that some pro-lifers want to see these mothers of unborn children actually suffer through the pregnancy and suffer through the raising of these unwanted children…as if this is their “payment” for getting pregnant in the first place. Like…“Well you got pregnant, it’s all your fault, now you have to pay the price”.
Also, it is also my own personal opinion that men have no idea what it’s like to get pregnant with an unwanted child. Or to know what it’s like to be deathly worried that you might be pregnant. So I find it funny to read some of the men’s repsonses.:dubious:
**Are you asserting that you sometimes feel that this is a typical pro-life tendency? Or that you sometimes see this tendency, but it isn’t typical?
If it’s the former, that’s pure stereotyping bullshit. If it’s the latter, well, so what?
Couples who do not want (more) children could exercise common sense and both be sterilized. If you disagree that this eliminates the possibility of unintended pregnancy, provide stats to back up your claim.
Burden the welfare system? Are you assuming that individuals with little or no wealth are not intellectually capable of using birth control methods?
Burden the parents? Who else should take responsibility for their sexual acts?
Women need to know their bodies and their cycles to use extra protection and/or abstain from penile contact during and near ovulation time. Isn’t that part of sex education? My daughters and I have never had a failure by applying this common sense approach, nor any one I know who also practices this advice. You can still be spontaneous AND responsible.
Alrighty then, choice of what, exactly?
Oh no, uh-uh. You define yourself if you disagree with my statement. Which you did. Now explain.
As my mother explained it to me, before the pill and numerous other options were available, "If you don’t want to be hit by a bus, don’t cross a busy street without looking both ways and being very cautious.".
Guess what?!? She was right. Certain actions can cause certain consequences. Everyone has a choice to act responsibly or not. Both will reap a consequence.
It isn’t a matter of wanting someone to suffer.