# Abortion Issue got me sleeping on the Couch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041 "2005-05-16T09:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/21 "2005-05-16T11:50:12Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Hrm… I was under the impression that basal body temperature readings were a very reliable indicator. Also, I thought that sperm can only survive for about three days in a woman’s reproductive tract, and that the window for conception was somewhat limited. Do you have a cite to clear up any ignorance I might have on this subject? Jeez. One pops into a thread (in the _Pit_, no less) to bash a dummy, and ends up being asked for a cite. I mean, I’m all for fighting ignorance, but I’m also all for releasing tension by participating in Pit threads in between bouts of intense studying. Not that the bouts have cut into much of my Doping time today, and nor have they been particularly intense. But hey, if I can’t gripe in the Pit, what’s it good for? That said, try this: [http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/fam.htm](http://www.fwhc.org/birth-control/fam.htm), a site that advocates using “fertility awareness” methods as birth control. A chart here lists one third of the cycle as “fertile” and another third as “probably infertile”, so that’s a big bit of insecurity right there. A quote about using basal body temperature: > [@](#): > > Immediately before ovulation, the temperature drops briefly. Within 12 hours of ovulation the BBT rises several tenths of a degree and remains up until the next menstrual period. When your temperature stays high for 3 days in a row, the fertile period is over and the safe infertile time begins. > > The main drawback of using the BBT method by itself, is that several factors can influence your BBT, including illness, lack of sleep, alcohol or drug use. Regarding ovulating several times per month, there’s this story: [http://12.42.224.153/HealthNews/Reuters/NewsStory0708200325.htm](http://12.42.224.153/HealthNews/Reuters/NewsStory0708200325.htm). It’s from 2003 and details a then recent discovery by Canadian scientists, which is strange, since I was told in school in the early nineties that women could ovulate more than once each month, but I guess it took the rest of the world a decade to catch up with Swedish medical expertise. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/22 "2005-05-16T11:50:34Z")
> [@What Is Schwa](#): > > Or I really am an asshole… You get my vote here. As you can see, you aren’t getting a lot of support for your arguement. I believe that is due to your arguement being incoherent, and the parts where I can find an idea that is coherent… those parts are just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/23 "2005-05-16T12:05:10Z")
\*\*What Is Schwa \*\* --congratulations! You’re practicing _abstinence_! And if you don’t learn to keep your trap shut around your woman, you’ll be practicing it a whole lot _more_! 😃😃😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/24 "2005-05-16T12:07:30Z")
> [@What Is Schwa](#): > > Women just want to fuck like a man. _Breaks down, sobbing…_ It’s true! It’s true! _Sniffles. Wipes away tears. Blinks and looks up through wet, long lashes…_ Will you help me pick out a strap-on? ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/25 "2005-05-16T12:47:06Z")
> [@What Is Schwa](#): > > Every time I have sex with a woman I face the potental of getting a life altering disease. I think that one alone might’ve done you in. Oh, and if anyone wants to read about my experiences with the “rhythm method” of birth control, just search under “twins”. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/26 "2005-05-16T13:09:02Z")
Heinlein said it best: (Paraphrased)“Do you know the medical term doctors use to describe women who rely on the rhythm method? They call them ‘mothers’.” **I Will Fear No Evil** ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/27 "2005-05-16T13:16:47Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > Heinlein said it best: (Paraphrased)“Do you know the medical term doctors use to describe women who rely on the rhythm method? They call them ‘mothers’.” **I Will Fear No Evil** That’s Heinlein? Damn… I’ve read most of his stuff and I didn’t remember that. I did, however, remember the same sort of joke but I don’t know where it’s from… What do you call people who use the rhythm method? Parents. But, thanks **Priceguy** for clearing up my ignorance. I thought that the rhythm method and basal body checking were different things, but I suppose I was wrong. Finn 1, ignorance 0. (Good gods am I ever glad I don’t have ovaries. Those things are complicated!) Um… y’all may return to the bashing now. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/28 "2005-05-16T13:25:33Z")
> [@What Is Schwa](#): > > A harmless comment to my girlfriend avalanched into an all out argument tonight. You might like to reconsider your use of the word ‘harmless’. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/29 "2005-05-16T13:26:25Z")
Overall, I think it’s good that you speak up in defence of your opinions; gives everybody the chance to make informed decisions about how to deal with you; in this particular case, informed decisions about _whether to share a bed with you_. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/30 "2005-05-16T13:26:51Z")
> [@What Is Schwa](#): > > Every time I have sex with a woman I face the potental of getting a life altering disease. > > Or I really am an asshole… You should stick to having sex with other guys. You appear to have have the right equipment. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/31 "2005-05-16T14:09:37Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I thought that the rhythm method and basal body checking were different things, but I suppose I was wrong. Finn 1, ignorance 0. They are different, but not enough different to be remarkably more effective. The rhythm method, classical style, uses NO signs or symptoms of the actual woman, but a chart which assumes she ovulates on day 14 of every menstrual cycle. Hardly any of us actually do. It’s a great lesson in why averages are useless for individuals. Taking just your basal temp is a start, but still open to vagaries as mentioned previously. FAM, however, includes not only basal temps, but checking the consistency of your cervical fluid, the position and “openness” of the cervix, as well as charting all this information and including notes on illness, alcohol consumption and lack of sleep. It IS remarkably effective and is NOT the rhythm method. But it still doesn’t do a damn thing to prevent STD’s. Just so’s you know. We now return to our previously scheduled WTF, directed at the clueless OP . . . ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/32 "2005-05-16T14:11:01Z")
> [@What Is Schwa](#): > > Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Yeah, because men are in heat all the time and have no self-control (kind of like Bill Clinton as depicted by his political enemies). :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/33 "2005-05-16T14:26:21Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > but checking the consistency of your cervical fluid, the position and “openness” of the cervix, Ahem… “Honey, where’d you put the flashlight?!?” Back to the OP, I somehow get the idea **Schwa** that you ended up voicing many of the same points you made in this thread, while yelling, to your girlfriend. Is that right? If so, you should probably apologize to her and let her know that especialy since she needs to deal with concerns of pregnancy, you appreciate that she’s found you worthy enough to take a chance on you. Or not, your call. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/34 "2005-05-16T14:29:41Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > FAM, however, includes not only basal temps, but checking the consistency of your cervical fluid, the position and “openness” of the cervix, as well as charting all this information and including notes on illness, alcohol consumption and lack of sleep. It IS remarkably effective and is NOT the rhythm method. But it still doesn’t do a damn thing to prevent STD’s. When, like all birth control methods, it is used as it should be. In the case of FAM this includes abstaining from sex if you are undergoing unusual stress (because this will throw off the body’s signals), ill, etc. Its also hard to maintain - take your temperture AT THE SAME TIME EVERY SINGLE DAY BEFORE YOU GET OUT OF BED TO PEE. Which means if you get up to go to work at 5:30 am Monday through Friday, you set the alarm for 5:30 am on Saturdays (don’t go out drinking Friday night, or you are off), take your temp, record it, and you can go back to sleep. It also works with averages - my copious mucus may be much less (but still fertile) than yours. Check your cervix, does it feel “open” or “soft” you are fertile. Most of us don’t spend a lot of time with our finger up our vaginas and really don’t have much of a comparison. Also, some of us are a little deeper and can’t really reach well (you also need to keep your nails trimmed). Do you have a lot of cervical mucus and its stretch - fertile! Except some of us produce less than others, and being dehydrated will cut down on the obvious mucus when you still could have enough to transport one of those little sperm. FAM can work, but it is a committment to a birth control method that sort of eclipses going in and getting a shot every few months. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/35 "2005-05-16T15:54:47Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > FAM can work, but it is a committment to a birth control method that sort of eclipses going in and getting a shot every few months. Eh. It was three days to read the book, 10 minutes a day for the first month to get the hang of it. Now I spend less than two minutes a day on it, most of that while I’m doing things I have to do anyway (like wiping after I pee and going “huh, that’s slippery!”) and with absolutely no hormonal or allergic side effects. I’m one of those women who turns into a weeping raving loon on hormonal birth control. It also gets my husband involved and better understanding my body, as he’s the one who actually takes the temps and writes down the number every morning. Let’s see…2 minutes X 30 days = 1 hour, multiplied by $5.99 for a thermometer and .79 for a pen, minus $90 for a depo shot times train fare and 2 hours of time…nope, this is a better choice for me. > [@](#): > > It also works with averages But it works only with YOUR averages, not our data averaged together. It doesn’t take long to learn what’s “fertile fluid” and “safe temp” for you. Sure, it’s not for everyone. But no form of birth control is. Kept me from getting pregnant when I didn’t want to for three years (and remember, I’m the one who conceived her son the first time I had sex, with three forms of birth control - no fertility problems here!) and enabled me to conceive my daughter with only one try, \*and \*helped to choose her gender. I’m just bummed I can’t use it while lactating. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/36 "2005-05-16T16:19:04Z")
Okay, now I’m **really** curious. How’d you choose her gender? I thought that was pseudoscience? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/37 "2005-05-16T16:27:14Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Will you help me pick out a strap-on? I hear Prada has a fabulous one this season… 😃 **Schwa** honey, you’re an asshole. If you were my man, I wouldn’t even let you stay on the couch. You need to buy your woman some flowers, recognize that you’re an idiot and thank her profusely for even considering ever having sex with you again, 'cus it’s more than you’d get from 90% of women with that shitty attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/38 "2005-05-16T16:27:16Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > But it works only with YOUR averages, not our data averaged together. It doesn’t take long to learn what’s “fertile fluid” and “safe temp” for you. Exactly, the learning portion can be a bitch. If I think my “fertile mucus” looks stretchy and gloopy and copious (certain months) and it turns out I’m one of those people who is fertile with much less in quantity and viscosity (which I have other months), I can end up pregnant. Or if my cervix never feels like a “ripe peach” (or I like my peaches riper than most), I could be making a perception mistake that will call me Mommy. This method works best for people who can consistantly use it, and whose bodies participate by behaving in a consistant fashion. Since I appear to be “fluctuating hormone girl” it isn’t a good method for me, even when I’m willing to wake up at 5:30 am on Sundays. That isn’t to say it isn’t a great method for you. (You guys realize this hijack is all about being able to describe cervical mucus and poking your own cervix in detail, right?) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/39 "2005-05-16T16:31:23Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Eh. It was three days to read the book, 10 minutes a day for the first month to get the hang of it. Now I spend less than two minutes a day on it, most of that while I’m doing things I have to do anyway (like wiping after I pee and going “huh, that’s slippery!”) and with absolutely no hormonal or allergic side effects. I’m one of those women who turns into a weeping raving loon on hormonal birth control. It also gets my husband involved and better understanding my body, as he’s the one who actually takes the temps and writes down the number every morning. > > Let’s see…2 minutes X 30 days = 1 hour, multiplied by $5.99 for a thermometer and .79 for a pen, minus $90 for a depo shot times train fare and 2 hours of time…nope, this is a better choice for me. > > But it works only with YOUR averages, not our data averaged together. It doesn’t take long to learn what’s “fertile fluid” and “safe temp” for you. > > Sure, it’s not for everyone. But no form of birth control is. > > Kept me from getting pregnant when I didn’t want to for three years (and remember, I’m the one who conceived her son the first time I had sex, with three forms of birth control - no fertility problems here!) and enabled me to conceive my daughter with only one try, \*and \*helped to choose her gender. > > I’m just bummed I can’t use it while lactating. ☹ If it works for you . . . great! But it drove me nuts. I have a daughter born in December because I was convinced the temp rise had occured and pregnancy was not a possibility. I am currently ttc another child and finding problems with timing and temps and cm. For a number of women FAM is not as easy as some people would have you believe. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041/40 "2005-05-16T16:32:45Z")
Wouldn’t its effectiveness also change as you near perimenopause? 'Cause I think that’s how I got twins, apparently I was dropping eggs like the Easter Bunny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-issue-got-me-sleeping-on-the-couch/304041.md?page=3)