# Abortion laws, before Roe vs. Wade **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281 "2016-04-05T19:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/1 "2016-04-05T19:20:29Z")
Back in the old pre-RvW days, it was obviously illegal to PERFORM an abortion, but was it also illegal to GET one? Would the woman have been prosecuted in addition to the doctor? If necessary, this may need to be broken down by state. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/2 "2016-04-05T19:30:39Z")
Nit pick: Abortion was legal under some circumstances in ~20 states prior to _Roe_, and in several states + Wash DC it was legal under _Roe_-like circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/3 "2016-04-05T19:46:04Z")
Supposedly in English common law, when the Lord Ellenborough’s Act of 1803 was passed, the person receiving the abortion could be prosecuted, though that was later changed. In the US that didn’t happen. Although even post Roe v Wade its controversial for a woman to self-abort a viable fetus. In 1994, a pregnant woman [shot herself in the stomach](http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/31/us/court-rules-out-woman-s-trial-in-fetus-death.html) to kill a fetus (of course this happened in Florida) but the state Supreme Court struck down the manslaughter and murder charges that resulted (the child was delivered by emergency C-section and died). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/4 "2016-04-05T19:52:11Z")
If a woman self-aborts, then she is the abortionist. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/5 "2016-04-05T19:57:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If a woman self-aborts, then she is the abortionist. Yet she is also the one receiving the abortion. And legally, that does matter, as in the situation I cited if that woman shot someone else in the stomach to do an abortion I’m sure she wouldn’t have gotten the charges dropped, even if the pregnant woman requested it. Late-term abortions are still illegal. See [this paper](http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=dlj) talking about the “right” to self-abort. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/6 "2016-04-05T19:57:48Z")
I found [this, from the Washington Post.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/04/01/everyone-agrees-women-who-have-abortions-shouldnt-be-penalized-or-do-they/) > [@](#): > > By the mid-19th century, most states had passed laws that made it a crime to perform — but not always to receive — an abortion. The penalty varied, but providers usually did not face homicide charges unless a woman died during the procedure. Before the Supreme Court legalized abortion in 1973, at least six states made it a crime for women to solicit an abortion. A handful had laws that could treat women as criminal co-conspirators, and 20 made it possible to charge women as accomplices. In practice, though, women were almost never imprisoned for choosing abortion. > Ida Lafferty, a 19-year old girl from Norwich, Conn., experienced the pre-Roe v. Wade system firsthand early in the last century. When Lafferty learned she was pregnant, she hoped her lover, Michael Carey, would marry her. Instead, he brought her to the Highland Hotel, where one Mr. Beebe unsuccessfully tried to terminate her pregnancy. Prosecutors eventually brought charges against Carey, and the trial unfolded in newspapers throughout 1903 and 1904. The courts considered whether Lafferty was an accomplice, but the question came up only when judges debated the credibility of her testimony against Carey. The Connecticut Supreme Court emphasized that no one could have prosecuted her. “The public policy which underlies this legislation,” the court explained, “is … the … protection [of the woman] against her own weakness as well as the criminal lust and greed of others.” Not quite a definitive answer, but does give some perspective. Sounds like things were never very clear-cut. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/7 "2016-04-05T20:00:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Yet she is also the one receiving the abortion. And legally, that does matter, as in the situation I cited if that woman shot someone else in the stomach to do an abortion I’m sure she wouldn’t have gotten the charges dropped, even if the pregnant woman requested it. Late-term abortions are still illegal. See [this paper](http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1186&context=dlj) talking about the “right” to self-abort. That case is from the mid 1990s, long after _Roe_. The OP is asking about abortion law prior to _Roe_. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/8 "2016-04-05T21:06:25Z")
The majority opinion in [Roe v. Wade](http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/113.html#t50) briefly addresses this issue: > [@](#): > > Parties challenging state abortion laws have sharply disputed in some courts the contention that a purpose of these laws, when enacted, was to protect prenatal life. . . . Proponents of this view point out that in many States, including Texas, by statute or judicial interpretation, the pregnant woman herself could not be prosecuted for self-abortion or for cooperating in an abortion performed upon her by another. This in turn footnotes to a comment that: > [@](#): > > A short discussion of the modern law on this issue is contained in the Comment to the ALI’s Model Penal Code 207.11, at 158 and nn. 35-37 (Tent. Draft No. 9, 1959). If anyone has access to the digital collection at ALI, the “short discussion” might shed further light on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/9 "2016-04-05T22:16:26Z")
I can’t lay hands on any cites, but I seem to recall previous threads on this topic that produced evidence suggesting that no woman was ever prosecuted in the US for procuring (or attempting to procure) an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/10 "2016-04-05T22:22:03Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That case is from the mid 1990s, long after _Roe_. The OP is asking about abortion law prior to _Roe_. The OP’s assumption is that a woman could only be prosecuted for receiving an abortion prior to RvW, I was pointing out that in certain circumstances she can be prosecuted even afterward. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/11 "2016-04-05T22:49:48Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The OP’s assumption is that a woman could only be prosecuted for receiving an abortion prior to RvW, I was pointing out that in certain circumstances she can be prosecuted even afterward. Did you mean “could” instead of “can”? From your cite: > [@](#): > > the Florida Supreme Court held that a pregnant woman cannot be charged with these crimes for self-aborting. The court held that, under Florida law, Ashley could self-abort at any time during her pregnancy, even when the fetus was viable. Note that the court’s decision included self-aborting a viable fetus. Now, this is FL, so things may vary in other states. However, it should not be surprising if a woman is prosecuted for preforming an illegal abortion if that illegal abortion is performed on herself. She is being prosecuted just as a doctor (or anyone else) would be who performed an illegal abortion. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/12 "2016-04-06T00:30:20Z")
> [@](#): > > However, it should not be surprising if a woman is prosecuted for preforming an illegal abortion if that illegal abortion is performed on herself. She is being prosecuted just as a doctor (or anyone else) would be who performed an illegal abortion. The doctor is being prosecuted for performing an illegal medical procedure. Doctors can be prosecuted for performing medical procedures under wrong/illegal circumstances when any layperson can legally perform these procedures on themselves if they want to. For example, suicide. Or cutting a healthy finger off. Or taking the wrong medication (the doctor prescribing the wrong medication). It would be practically impossible to convict a woman of performing a self-abortion The woman tripped and fell on a coathanger or fell down the stairs or accidentally consumed the wrong herbs, all sad accidents. Or maybe she just had a totally natural miscarriage-around 1/3 of prenancies naturally terminate themselves. It would be a complete nightmare for the legal system to try to “punish” women for seeking or getting or performing their own abortions. For starters, they’d have to somehow track all women who get pregnant and then go investigate those who failed to give birth at term. The only women who would be easy to “catch” would be those who were dying from complications of unsafe abortions and I doubt the prosecutors would be interested. Death from botched abortion was extremely common prior to legalization of abortion. Even before Roe vs. Wade approximately 1/3 of the adult women population had an abortion at some point in time, and large numbers of women suffered from natural miscarriages. I don’t think the country is going to function too well with a huge proportion of the population imprisoned for abortion. Anyone who thinks laws punishing women for seeking/performing abortions are going to reduce the abortion rate is someone who hasn’t looked at history. A woman who needs an abortion is willing to risk death in order to get one. What’s a little jail time in comparison to that. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/13 "2016-04-06T17:11:22Z")
if you want an actual review of the laws, CNN has covered it pretty well: > **[Before and after Roe v. Wade | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/22/health/roe-wade-abortion-timeline/)** > > A look at the years before and after Roe v. Wade, the ruling that legalized abortion 40 years ago Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/14 "2016-04-06T17:42:02Z")
[QUOTE=W.Va. Code] §61-2-8. Abortion; penalty. Any person who shall administer to, or cause to be taken by, a woman, any drug or other thing, or use any means, with intent to destroy her unborn child, or to produce abortion or miscarriage, and shall thereby destroy such child, or produce such abortion or miscarriage, shall be guilty of a felony, and, upon conviction, shall be confined in the penitentiary not less than three nor more than ten years; and if such woman die by reason of such abortion performed upon her, such person shall be guilty of murder. No person, by reason of any act mentioned in this section, shall be punishable where such act is done in good faith, with the intention of saving the life of such woman or child. [/QUOTE] This is the West Virginia abortion law that was on the books prior to Roe v. Wade and remains on the books today but cannot be enforced because it is (at present) unconstitutional. Note that it provides only penalties to those who actually perform the abortion, but as others have said, the woman could be prosecuting under an aiding and abetting theory. I don’t have any data on whether those types of prosecutions were actually done. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/15 "2016-04-06T18:45:41Z")
> **[Punish Women for Abortion? Spare the Outrage: That IS the 'Mainstream'...](https://rewirenewsgroup.com/2016/04/01/punish-women-abortion-spare-outrage-mainstream-anti-choice-position/)** > > No matter how much the anti-choice movement dissembles, there is only one reality: The laws and policies pushed by the movement and the politicians it supports punish women both explicitly and implicitly. “Women who attempt to self-induce abortion are now routinely charged with crimes. In Georgia, Kenlissia Jones was arrested in 2015 for allegedly using misoprostol to self-induce her abortion. Jones was originally facing two charges: “malice murder” and “possession of a dangerous drug” (i.e. the misoprostol). The murder charge against Jones was dropped, but she still faces punishment for the drug charge. That same year in Arkansas a nurse, Karen Collins, was arrested and faced the charge of “performing an unlicensed abortion” (a class D felony in her state) for allegedly providing a drug to a woman that would allow her to terminate her pregnancy. And in Tennessee, Anna Yocca was charged with attempted murder for a failed self-induced abortion attempt with a coat hanger. Prosecutors later dropped the attempted murder charge but said they would still pursue criminal charges against Yocca, likely for aggravated assault.” ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/16 "2016-04-07T02:29:34Z")
I remember reading that in the late sixties an article mentioned that fairly rich parents of pregnant teens could fly them to Japan, where the procedure was unrestricted. Several novels - _Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz_ was one, and a novel by Taylor Caldwell whose name I forget, for example - described doctors (or in Duddy, an advanced medical student) doing illegal abortions as a favour in the fifties and earlier. the law in many states required a doctor who found evidence of an abortion to report it to authorities; the Caldwell book mentions the scrape marks from a D&C. When Dr. Henry Morgentaler was charged in Montreal for running a blatantly open abortion clinic, the crown prosecutor could not find any patient willing to testify against him. They solved that problem by telling one of his patients, a student visa holder, if she did not testify they would revoke her visa, send her back to Africa, and inform her family why she was sent home. (Where, most likely, her family would kill her) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/17 "2016-04-09T02:53:28Z")
Women in Northern Ireland can be [prosecuted](http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/a-woman-who-took-abortion-pills-has-been-sentenced-to-three#.shGyR56KqL) for self-aborting. ---
**Author:** ![DtypeJag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@DtypeJag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DtypeJag)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/18 "2016-04-10T03:56:11Z")
Does anyone know if it is true that for every live birth there are 3-4 spontaneous abortions or miscarriages? A related question is: Have miscarriaged feti(?) been shown to be in some way defective and Mother Nature aborted it? I realize this is somewhat off topic but might be of interest. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-laws-before-roe-vs-wade/751281/19 "2016-04-10T06:37:44Z")
> [@DtypeJag](#): > > Does anyone know if it is true that for every live birth there are 3-4 spontaneous abortions or miscarriages? So far as we know, anywhere between one in three and one in two fertilisation ends in miscarriage - not the three in four or four in five that you question implies. But, yes, the rate of miscarriage - 30% to 50% of fertilisations - is much higher than most people realise. The bulk of miscarriages happen to women who have not become aware that they are pregnant > [@DtypeJag](#): > > A related question is: Have miscarriaged feti(?) been shown to be in some way defective and Mother Nature aborted it? Miscarriage can have a variety of causes - genetic, uterine, or hormonal abnormalities; reproductive tract infections; tissue rejection. Many of these have nothing to do with any foetal abnormality, but some do. I’m not aware of any breakdown. A few miscarriages - very few - are caused by invasive diagnostic procedures like amniocentesis.