# Abortion of mixed race children **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073 "2012-10-27T21:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/1 "2012-10-27T21:41:07Z")
Do you think it’s a valid perception that women, of any given ethnicity, would choose to abort mixed-race fetuses at a higher rate than non-mixed race fetuses? If this correlation were observed, could it be attributed to racism, either conscious or subconscious? Phrased in another way, do you think a society’s hostility toward interracial marriage correlates with “demand” for abortion services in some form? Would you be more surprised if such a correlation was found to 1) exist, or 2) not to exist? Could the “sexual revolution,” which broke down the barriers between what were widely held to be taboo (i.e. interracial “dating” or sex) have dramatically increased the demand for abortions? Nixon believed that abortion would be “necessary” with mixed race children: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5626338/President-Richard-Nixon-said-it-was-necessary-to-abort-mixed-race-babies-tapes-reveal.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5626338/President-Richard-Nixon-said-it-was-necessary-to-abort-mixed-race-babies-tapes-reveal.html) Nixon believed it was “necessary.” Do you think this belief is a fairly common one held by a majority of women (of non-“mixed” race descent), even if taboo? Or do believe Nixon voiced something that is peculiar to his own worldview? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/2 "2012-10-27T21:48:34Z")
I think it was probably a fairly common opinion 40 years ago when he said it, perhaps. I don’t think it’s very common now, at least in my peer group (those of us who weren’t aborted in the early 70s). That is, I don’t think there are oodles of women getting abortions \*because \*their fetuses are mixed race. They may be getting abortions because it’s not the right time for them to have a child, or they don’t want to be pregnant, or they’ve been medically advised not to carry a pregnancy to term, or any one of a gazzillion other reasons, and some of those fetuses are probably indeed of mixed racial parentage, but I don’t think that’s the same thing. But I’m also aware that I move in American liberal bluecollar/professional urban social circles, so it may very well be different in others. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/3 "2012-10-27T21:50:19Z")
Nixon was talking in 1973. Racial attitudes have changed a lot since then. I’ve never encountered this idea before so I don’t feel it’s a common one. My personal feeling is that while people have strong opinions about abortion, for and against, the issue of what race the parents are is so minor that it’s virtually non-existent. I’ve heard people talking about whether somebody’s opinions on abortion would be different if rape or incest were involved or if the foetus was tested to be handicapped or gay. But I’ve never heard a debate where people ask if somebody’s opinion on abortion changed based on what race the foetus was. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/4 "2012-10-27T21:50:20Z")
Should hope not, given the fluidity of “race” as well as the fact that I myself am mixed race (part Native American). Seems extremely stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/5 "2012-10-27T22:02:10Z")
Heck, during Nixon’s formative years, a sizable number of U.S. states banned interracial marriage, hence if a woman had an interracial fetus in one of those states, she could not legally marry the fetus’s father and thus abortion was a serious consideration. I figure if Nixon was talking in 1973 when he was 60 years old, he wasn’t necessarily speaking of the situation as it existed then, but of his perceptions set when he was a young man 40 years earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/6 "2012-10-27T22:15:22Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > Do you think it’s a valid perception that women, of any given ethnicity, would choose to abort mixed-race fetuses at a higher rate than non-mixed race fetuses? That seems implausible to me. Presumably women who are that racist aren’t likely to be having sex with other races in the first place. > [@supery00n](#): > > Nixon believed it was “necessary.” He also wasn’t a woman who was having interracial sex. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/7 "2012-10-27T23:17:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He also wasn’t a woman who was having interracial sex. He also wasn’t a man who was having interracial sex (as far as we know!). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/8 "2012-10-27T23:44:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He also wasn’t a man who was having interracial sex (as far as we know!). 😉 Well, there was that one time in college, but that doesn’t really count. He was drunk and everyone else was doing it too. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/9 "2012-10-27T23:55:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He also wasn’t a man who was having interracial sex (as far as we know!). 😉 But there were rumors and regardless of whether or not the rumors were true, they may have made Nixon sensitive about the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/10 "2012-10-28T00:20:43Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > Do you think it’s a valid perception that women, of any given ethnicity, would choose to abort mixed-race fetuses at a higher rate than non-mixed race fetuses? No, at least not as a general rule. I could believe that certain women in certain situations might be more likely to abort mixed-race fetuses, but these would be pretty rare and in both cases abortion would be likely even if race wasn’t an issue: 1. A pregnant teenager has racist parents, and unless she has an abortion they are sure to figure out that she’s been sneaking around with a boyfriend of a different race. 2. The pregnancy resulted from a rape committed by a man of a different race, and the woman doesn’t want to have to raise the baby and deal with a bunch of questions from strangers about her mixed-race child and doesn’t want to place the baby up for adoption because she fears a mixed-race baby is unlikely to be adopted. I would not expect an adult woman who became pregnant after having consensual sex with a man of a different race to be any more likely to abort than the average adult woman who became pregnant after having consensual sex with a man of the same race. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/11 "2012-10-28T01:21:29Z")
This may not be much of a problem here in the US anymore but this may be a factor in countries like South Korea and Japan where ethnic “purity” is more important. At the extreme end, North Korea mandates abortions of women who got pregnant in China. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/12 "2012-10-28T01:26:08Z")
Sure, but it’s a toothless ban since a woman who gets to China long enough to get knocked up wouldn’t voluntarily return to North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/13 "2012-10-28T01:45:36Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > No, at least not as a general rule. I could believe that certain women in certain situations might be more likely to abort mixed-race fetuses, but these would be pretty rare and in both cases abortion would be likely even if race wasn’t an issue: > > 1. A pregnant teenager has racist parents, and unless she has an abortion they are sure to figure out that she’s been sneaking around with a boyfriend of a different race. > > 2. The pregnancy resulted from a rape committed by a man of a different race, and the woman doesn’t want to have to raise the baby and deal with a bunch of questions from strangers about her mixed-race child and doesn’t want to place the baby up for adoption because she fears a mixed-race baby is unlikely to be adopted. > > I would not expect an adult woman who became pregnant after having consensual sex with a man of a different race to be any more likely to abort than the average adult woman who became pregnant after having consensual sex with a man of the same race. You forgot: 1. Her regular partner is of a different race to the guy she is pretty sure has knocked her up. Once the baby is born this may be obvious to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/14 "2012-10-28T01:50:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sure, but it’s a toothless ban since a woman who gets to China long enough to get knocked up wouldn’t voluntarily return to North Korea. True nobody will voluntarily return but the Chinese often to return these people or the North Koreans can easily simply take family members as hostages. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/15 "2012-10-28T02:16:50Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > You forgot: > > 1. Her regular partner is of a different race to the guy she is pretty sure has knocked her up. Once the baby is born this may be obvious to everyone. Yeah, I could see that one too, although again I’d guess it’s fairly common for a woman to abort a fetus conceived through an affair even if everyone involved is of the same race. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > This may not be much of a problem here in the US anymore but this may be a factor in countries like South Korea and Japan where ethnic “purity” is more important. A Japanese woman concerned about ethnic purity presumably wouldn’t get involved with a non-Japanese man in the first place. When I was living in Japan (nearly a decade ago) it seemed fairly common for white Western men living in Japan to date and marry Japanese women, and as far as I could tell this wasn’t considered particularly shocking. On a number of occasions I also heard Japanese women say that they thought mixed race Japanese/white babies were especially cute. I suspect some of these women would have felt differently about Japanese/black babies, but if anything I’d say Japanese/white interracial relationships were more mainstream than Japanese/non-Japanese Asian relationships. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/16 "2012-10-28T02:54:11Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > This may not be much of a problem here in the US anymore but this may be a factor in countries like South Korea and Japan where ethnic “purity” is more important. At the extreme end, North Korea mandates abortions of women who got pregnant in China. Can we have a cite? Not that I think you’re wrong, just curious. Also, note that there would be no comparison to a “mixed race” child when parents are Black/White vs Chinese/Korean. No one could ever tell by simple observation in the latter case. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/17 "2012-10-28T03:00:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Also, note that there would be no comparison to a “mixed race” child when parents are Black/White vs Chinese/Korean. No one could ever tell by simple observation in the latter case. No one can tell in many instances in the first case, either (at least in the US). Many mixed black and white folks look very similar to many African-Americans (whose ancestry is admittedly mixed), but my point is that a half “European-American” and half “African American” person may well just look “African-American” to most people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/18 "2012-10-28T03:06:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No one can tell in many instances in the first case, either (at least in the US). Many mixed black and white folks look very similar to many African-Americans (whose ancestry is admittedly mixed), but my point is that a half “European-American” and half “African American” person may well just look “African-American” to most people. Depends on whether the mother is white or black. I don’t think the implication in this thread is that there could be a crisis of black women aborting fetuses due to impregnation by white guys. At least not in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/19 "2012-10-28T03:10:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can we have a cite? Not that I think you’re wrong, just curious. > > Also, note that there would be no comparison to a “mixed race” child when parents are Black/White vs Chinese/Korean. No one could ever tell by simple observation in the latter case. [http://www.helpinghandskorea.org/2010/07/10/north-korean-mother-endured-a-forced-abortion/](http://www.helpinghandskorea.org/2010/07/10/north-korean-mother-endured-a-forced-abortion/) > [@](#): > > During detention in North Korea, I defied the order to abort the fetus the prison authorities contemptuously called a ‘Chinese chink’ and was badly beaten and kicked at my belly by a guard. His name is Hwang Myong-dong. My sister was with me at that time. Pain continued but I did not know that my unborn child was killed by his kicking. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/20 "2012-10-28T03:10:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Depends on whether the mother is white or black. I don’t think the implication in this thread is that there could be a crisis of black women aborting fetuses due to impregnation by white guys. At least not in the US. Ok, agreed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073.md?page=2)