# Abortion of mixed race children **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 27, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073 "2012-10-27T21:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/21 "2012-10-28T04:57:34Z")
Don’t sell Nixon short; at least he admitted that rape exists. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Nixon was talking in 1973. Racial attitudes have changed a lot since then. Not that much. People may have thought a “mixed-race baby” would have a harder life, but the belief it would be “necessary” to terminate the pregnancy was not a common belief. Nixon, you will remember, was a peculiarly unpleasant person. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, during Nixon’s formative years, a sizable number of U.S. states banned interracial marriage, hence if a woman had an interracial fetus in one of those states, she could not legally marry the fetus’s father and thus abortion was a serious consideration. She also could not legally get an abortion. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I figure if Nixon was talking in 1973 when he was 60 years old, he wasn’t necessarily speaking of the situation as it existed then, but of his perceptions set when he was a young man 40 years earlier. Nope. “Commenting privately on the landmark 1973 Supreme Court ruling Roe vs Wade, …” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/22 "2012-10-28T05:18:36Z")
> [@j666](#): > > She also could not legally get an abortion. Yeah, and that’s always been such an insurmountable barrier. > [@](#): > > Nope. > “Commenting privately on the landmark 1973 Supreme Court ruling Roe vs Wade, …” Nevertheless, it’s a 60 year-old guy venturing an opinion in a fairly visceral topic. I venture his opinion was in formation years before, if not decades before 1973. Similarly, ask a modern 60 year-old about a modern equivalent issue (gay marriage, maybe) - I venture their opinion will be affected by how they felt about it in the early 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/23 "2012-10-28T14:01:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, and that’s always been such an insurmountable barrier. Please share with us your experience in trying to safely terminate a pregnancy in 1933, the time you mentioned. Where there techniques that made a perforated uterus much less likely if one attempted a mechanical termination? Was the uterus so much stronger, or bleach and lye so much weaker, that a caustic douche was less likely to end sterility at best and quite possibly death? Or where the poisons used as abortifacients so much better targeted that one was less likely to die puking and cramping in agony? Do tell. Nixon was specifically referring to Roe v. Wade, suggesting at that time aborting mixed-race babies would be “necessary”, and no, that was NOT a commonly held belief. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/24 "2012-10-28T14:27:07Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Please share with us your experience in trying to safely terminate a pregnancy in 1933, the time you mentioned. > > Where there techniques that made a perforated uterus much less likely if one attempted a mechanical termination? > > Was the uterus so much stronger, or bleach and lye so much weaker, that a caustic douche was less likely to end sterility at best and quite possibly death? > > Or where the poisons used as abortifacients so much better targeted that one was less likely to die puking and cramping in agony? > > Do tell. Even with all that, women who wanted abortions did in fact seek them. > [@](#): > > Nixon was specifically referring to Roe v. Wade, suggesting at that time aborting mixed-race babies would be “necessary”, and no, that was NOT a commonly held belief. Do tell where I said it was common. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/25 "2012-10-28T15:31:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Even with all that, women who wanted abortions did in fact seek them. > > Do tell where I said it was common. Read the OP. Yes, women sought abortions. Some found them. Some were left sterile. Some died from them. Don’t trivialize the danger women were in. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/26 "2012-10-28T16:55:14Z")
I didn’t even _mention_ the danger women were in, let alone trivialize it. My point was merely that it’s not particularly shocking that a 60 year-old man in 1973 would have said something like that. Any additional motives you want to attribute to me… be my guest. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/27 "2012-10-28T19:24:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I didn’t even _mention_ the danger women were in, let alone trivialize it. My point was merely that it’s not particularly shocking that a 60 year-old man in 1973 would have said something like that. Stop that. You are mischaracterizing your statements. You implied the lack of legal abortions was of little consequence. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … she could not legally marry the fetus’s father and thus abortion was a serious consideration. > [@j666](#): > > She also could not legally get an abortion. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, and that’s always been such an insurmountable barrier. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Even with all that, women who wanted abortions did in fact seek them. You also mischaracterized one of my statements; it think it was clear I was responding to the OP, **WhyNot,** and **Little Nemo** who appeared to believe Nixon’s attitude would not have been anathema to most of the U.S. at the time, in the '70s. (And I will apologize to **Suppery, WhyNot** , or **LittleNemo** if I have mischaracterized one of their positions.) ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/28 "2012-10-28T19:38:39Z")
> [@supery00n](#): > > Do you think it’s a valid perception that women, of any given ethnicity, would choose to abort mixed-race fetuses at a higher rate than non-mixed race fetuses? > … > Nixon believed it was “necessary.” Do you think this belief is a fairly common one held by a majority of women (of non-“mixed” race descent), even if taboo? Or do believe Nixon voiced something that is peculiar to his own worldview? Re-reading the article, I wonder if Nixon even assumed women would be making the decision, or if the man would do so, and she would acquiesce. The statement to Bush about women candidates does not indicate much respect for women, does it? > [@](#): > > “I noticed a couple of very attractive women, both of them Republicans, in the legislature. I want you to be sure to emphasize to our people, God, let’s look for some … Understand, **I don’t do it because I’m for women,** but I’m doing it because I think maybe a woman might win someplace where a man might not … So have you got that in mind?”_[emphasis mine]_ I think it interesting that there is no reference to immorality, murder, or God’s Will in his stated opposition. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/29 "2012-10-28T19:42:00Z")
**j666** , **Bryan** made an off-hand comment that might not have been well thought out. You have now turned it into a major point of contention (including imputing thoughts to him that he has not expressed) that are really off-topic for this thread. You are also getting dangerously close to accusing him of lying, a point both against the rules and inaccurate. Just drop it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![supery00n](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@supery00n](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supery00n)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/30 "2012-11-01T00:07:47Z")
> [@Little Screamo](#): > > Nixon was talking in 1973. Racial attitudes have changed a lot since then. > > I’ve never encountered this idea before so I don’t feel it’s a common one. > > My personal feeling is that while people have strong opinions about abortion, for and against, the issue of what race the parents are is so minor that it’s virtually non-existent. I’ve heard people talking about whether somebody’s opinions on abortion would be different if rape or incest were involved or if the foetus was tested to be handicapped or gay. But I’ve never heard a debate where people ask if somebody’s opinion on abortion changed based on what race the foetus was. Could it be that the legalization of abortion was one of the reasons why interracial relationships became more acceptable? This might be a strange supposition, but please hear me out. Prior to abortion being legalized, interracial relationships, as are all sexual relationships both then and today, were likely to lead to a pregnancy. The fetus would obviously be mixed-race. If abortion is not an option, then all mixed race couplings would result in mixed-race children. On the other hand, if abortion is legal, then interracial relationships _not including marriage_ that produced a pregnancy with the fetus being a mixed-race child need not be carried to term (pregnancies resulting from interracial marriage could also be terminated, but there is no reason why such a couple would wish to do so unless they just didn’t want to have children), which means that the consequences of an interracial relationship are entirely under the participants’ control, rather than potentially long-term… This would lead to more interracial couplings since conception wouldn’t mean mandated birth; i.e. one could have one night stands, experiment with “different” people, etc. (I am assuming that there is a natural tendency for members in all “races” to have sex with each other, and that social taboos merely attempt to suppress this natural feeling; mind you, I’m not saying that individuals _prefer_ other races, merely that people will have sex with anyone more or less =D) The more interracial couplings occur, the more the social taboo concerning them breaks down, which in turn leads to more interracial couplings, and voila, a generation loses its racism in a virtuous or vicious cycle, depending on whether or not you are a racist. I am hypothesizing that without legalized abortion, this might not have happened to the extent that it (possibly) did? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073/31 "2012-11-01T02:21:08Z")
Abortion was legalized in 1973. The birth control bill was approved by the FDA in 1960. I suspect that even if your general concept has merit, (and I don’t actually find it persuasive), the introduction of a pill to prevent pregancies 13 years earlier would overwhelm any minor actions of subsequent abortions in your scenario. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-of-mixed-race-children/639073.md?page=1)