# Abortion patient version of the Fugitive Slave Act -- would it be legally possible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [June 25, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805 "2022-06-25T02:13:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/41 "2022-06-28T04:37:55Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > but I’m fairly certain that not even this SC will let it happen. Because if Texas can decide that a doctor in NY has violated Texas law by performing an abortion in NY, or Ohio can decide that a Pennsylvania doctor has violated Ohio law by providing a prescription for pills to an Ohio resident while she is physically located in PA, that will mean a whole lot of things that no one wants. If Texas can criminalize conduct that occurred solely in NY. It will mean that each state is not sovereign over its own territory I would no longer trust the current Supreme Court to be above doing anything so stupid. If they do, it won’t matter anyway. When State A tries to tell State B what is legal or not in State B, the result will be that State B simply tells State A to bug off. How will any state enforce its will on any other state? And what difference would it then make, no matter what the Supreme Court, or any court, says. If the Supreme Court begins to rule that states can dictate law to other states, then states will simply overtly tell the Supreme Court to go jump in a lake. The SC will lose its authority completely, and the jobs of the nine justices will become irrelevant sinecures. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/42 "2022-06-28T05:37:25Z")
If a state can criminalize activity in another state, then what are the limits. > [@doreen](#): > > If states want to somehow prohibit their residents from going to other states to have an abortion, they will have to figure out a way to define when someone is no longer a resident of a state, which hasn’t been important up until now. This is also an interesting aspect. Obviously, you don’t have to be a resident of South Carolina to commit murder inside SC. You don’t even have to be a US citizen. So if SC can forbid residents from having an abortion in NY, why can’t they forbid _anyone_ who comes within their clutches from having violated that law by having an out-of-state abortion, and arrest them the moment they can? Plus, if you’re talking about abortion, why not gun control? Can NY or CA then arrest anyone who sells a gun in SC to a NY resident? To a SC resident who then brought that gun to NY? To a SC resident who never came to NY? There was a suggestion that Texas’ “let anyone sue” approach to abortion would be reciprocated by a state like California passing the same sort of law allowing anyone to sue someone anywhere, any time who sold an AR15. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/43 "2022-06-28T13:12:41Z")
Typically, jurisdictions don’t make it a crime to have done something; they make it a crime to do something. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/44 "2022-06-28T13:33:01Z")
They make to a crime to _do_ something - but people get arrested and prosecuted when the state believes they _have done_ that thing. If territorial jurisdiction doesn’t matter, and a doctor in NY violates Texas law by performing an abortion in NY , why couldn’t Texas prohibit anyone from having an abortion anywhere and arrest a NJ resident who had an abortion in NY that was legal under NY law when that person visits Texas a month later? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/45 "2022-06-28T13:39:25Z")
How is this scenario different from say someone living in a state where gambling is illegal goes to Las Vegas. If this was actionable, shouldn’t millions of people have been arrested for making that trip? I openly admit that in 1994, I, a citizen of New York State, did willfully travel to Nevada to “lose” money in casinos, a thing I could not do at home. Where’s the outrage? I’m so sick of this. Let those states loose to make a new confederacy, provided all nukes within their borders are removed, and a grace period is declared to allow anyone who wants to escape their dystopia to come live in the real America. Also, they get a warning that any new nuclear capability development will be considered an act of war. And if so, they will be reconquered and treated as the colonies they should have been after the (first) Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/46 "2022-06-28T14:18:03Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > When State A tries to tell State B what is legal or not in State B, the result will be that State B simply tells State A to bug off. How will any state enforce its will on any other state? The various Fugitive Slave Acts are examples of exactly how states enforce their will on other states. They often failed in court, because the cases are typically held in jurisdictions that disagree with the underlying law. But they didn’t always fail in court. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/47 "2022-06-28T20:14:40Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > When State A tries to tell State B what is legal or not in State B, the result will be that State B simply tells State A to bug off. How will any state enforce its will on any other state? If a law entitles the state or a private citizen to sue someone for something like, say, $10,000 for aiding an abortion - if the plaintiff gets a judgement in, let’s say, Texas for $10,000 and goes to Well Fargo knowing the defendant has an account in that bank in NYC - what can Wells Fargo do when served, to avoid paying, other than close down all Texas branches and remove itself from business in Texas? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/48 "2022-06-28T20:19:05Z")
Good point, banking across state lines wasn’t a thing in the 19th century. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/49 "2022-06-28T22:32:34Z")
Well if they come to Connecticut for the abortion, they can I believe counter-sue in CT at least to recover costs. So who knows whats’ going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/50 "2022-06-29T00:49:40Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > If a law entitles the state or a private citizen to sue someone for something like, say, $10,000 for aiding an abortion - if the plaintiff gets a judgement in, let’s say, Texas for $10,000 and goes to Well Fargo knowing the defendant has an account in that bank in NYC - what can Wells Fargo do when served, to avoid paying, other than close down all Texas branches and remove itself from business in Texas? And then suppose NY passes a law allowing any resident who is dinged that way to sue Wells-Fargo for triple damages. You could see the end of interstate banking. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/51 "2022-06-29T01:43:26Z")
Or you could see banks suddenly develop a deep, deep concern for the unborn, even deeper than their concern for meddlesome financial regulators. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2022, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/52 "2022-06-29T04:15:31Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > And then suppose NY passes a law allowing any resident who is dinged that way to sue Wells-Fargo for triple damages. You could see the end of interstate banking. I guess it boils down to - what happens if a countrywide corporation is served conflicting court orders by two different states? Can a Company create subsidiaries to escape this, or is serving a subsidiary the same as serving the head office? I’m also thinking of the scenario where say, Starbucks Texas says “we know nothing about reimbursements for travel to get an abortion for our employees, we can’t supply that data, that’s all handled by the Seattle head office…” I suppose Starbucks International could also create a third-party company or hire a trustee to handle such things, and all they do is write a cheque and hand it to Pink Hats Inc. every month who then handles employee requests for money. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2022, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805/53 "2022-06-30T13:03:11Z")
New article in WAPO on this question. A quote: _“Just because you jump across a state line doesn’t mean your home state doesn’t have jurisdiction,” said Peter Breen, vice president and senior counsel for the Thomas More Society. “It’s not a free abortion card when you drive across the state line.”_ > **[Antiabortion lawmakers want to block patients from crossing state lines](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/29/abortion-state-lines/)** > > Some advocacy groups and their allies are crafting legislative language that could be adopted in Republican-led state capitals. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-patient-version-of-the-fugitive-slave-act-would-it-be-legally-possible/966805.md?page=2)