# Abortion rights supporters: ethically, should a happily-married woman get her husband's opinion ... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033 "2014-09-30T23:09:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/41 "2014-10-01T21:30:40Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Well his ethics won’t be broken if he didn’t know about it, so maybe I wouldn’t. I considered it last time I was pregnant and I wouldn’t have discussed it with my SO. Whether what I’d have done is RIGHT or not doesn’t matter. I would have kept it from him for many reasons, some more selfish than others. It would have done more harm than good to tell him; I’ll just leave it at that. But were you happily married? There are many situations where it makes excellent sense for a woman not to tell, but when you are happily married part of the deal is no secrets. And also letting your partner do stuff you might not want. ---
**Author:** ![Lowdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Lowdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowdown)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/42 "2014-10-01T21:32:45Z")
I can’t decide. My thoughts: 1. If we are a married couple, then we’re in it together. I can’t order you to have an abortion. You can’t inform me that you’re having one regardless of my thoughts on the matter. 2. Having this discussion _after_ the getting knocked up part is not the way to go. If I’m not cool with you aborting things, I shouldn’t be putting anything inside you in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/43 "2014-10-01T22:10:30Z")
I do find it interesting that opinions on this are so much less varied than the opinion on whether to inform someone that you had an affair. And, yes, she should discuss it with him. For reasons stated above, plus the fact that her current state has to do with him. Plus I know a guy who almost committed suicide when his girlfriend didn’t tell him. And that was just his girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/44 "2014-10-01T22:48:43Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > My take is that if she’s actually a happily married woman, she _will be_ getting her husband’s opinion. I think this phrasing puts it best. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/45 "2014-10-02T03:54:04Z")
It’s her decision. But ethically, I think he should be informed, at least if it’s a surgical abortion. If for no other reason, as encouragement for him to use a more reliable method of birth control, i.e., vasectomy. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/46 "2014-10-02T04:37:43Z")
I think one problem here is peoples opinions often change. When they got married they both might have agreed to have no children but what if one of them changes their minds later on? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/47 "2014-10-02T06:05:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s your opinion. Kevin, however, has a different opinion, and unless you’re prepared to say that his opinion is so worthless that it deserves no respect at all, his opinion is something to respect. Kevin’s opinion on abortion is _already_ a known factor. And respecting opinions is a nice-to-have, not an ethical imperative, when the decision to act is already made, as in this case. > [@](#): > > (And if you think it’s that worthless, you wouldn’t be happily married to Kevin, most likely). I wouldn’t be married to someone who was anti-abortion, you’re right there. I love my wife, but if she suddenly turned anti-choice (or became a climate change denier, or a racist, or some stripe of fundamentalist) it’d be over. > [@](#): > > Penelope absolutely has a right to have that abortion regardless of what Kevin thinks. HOWEVER: Kevin also has a right to change his behavior so that he doesn’t risk being involved even indirectly in future abortions (as he was in this one, having contributed to the pregnancy). Ethically, if he is completely unaware of them, he _isn’t_ involved. Contributing to the pregnancy doesn’t make him complicit in the abortion in any way, IMO. He might think different, but then he also thinks abortion is wrong, so clearly we’re not operating with his ethics in mind, only Penelope’s (which are mine) and _I_ don’t consider him to have any ethical obligations or duties to his every sperm sample, only children carried to term or expected to be. > [@](#): > > Kevin might decide to get a vasectomy, to stop having sex with his wife, or to separate from his wife, depending on his feelings about the abortion, and that decision is absolutely his right to make. Fair enough, he has the right to do all of those things. What I do not believe he has a _right_ to is complete information. He only has the _right_ to such medical information from his wife as either affects his own physical being, or his _direct_ physical relationship with his wife (as in the case of D&C surgery). I consider this to be neither (assuming a drug-induced abortion) - it’s an internal physical matter of his wife alone. He doesn’t “own” a piece of the embryo just because it has one of his sperm in it, IMO. > [@](#): > > Penelope ethically needs to provide him with the information he needs to make an informed decision. No, she does not. She already provided him with all the ethically-required information when they jointly decided not to have children. > [@](#): > > To do otherwise is to continue the marriage under false pretenses, under what is essentially a lie of omission. Only if _Penelope_ does not consider abortion just another method of birth control, which Kevin _has_ agreed to. And I do, so in this scenario, so does Penelope. Kevin may think otherwise, but his disagreement doesn’t constitute an ethical obligation on Penelope, it only constrains his own actions. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/48 "2014-10-02T06:10:55Z")
BTW, I’m answering the question as posed in the OP rather strictly. I do think she _should_ tell him as a matter of courtesy and because sharing things is what happy couples do, but “be polite” and “be a happy couple” are _not_ ethical imperatives to me. Nothing about not telling Kevin crosses any of my personal ethical boundaries - and that includes the “Don’t Lie” one, as “lies of omission” are bullshit to me. If Kevin directly asks her if she’d having/had an abortion, then there’s an ethical imperative. Not before. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/49 "2014-10-02T16:12:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > BTW, I’m answering the question as posed in the OP rather strictly. I do think she _should_ tell him as a matter of courtesy and because sharing things is what happy couples do, but “be polite” and “be a happy couple” are _not_ ethical imperatives to me. For me, being polite to your spouse is an ethical imperative, because I consider politeness part of treating your spouse well. And treating your spouse well is a must. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/50 "2014-10-02T17:51:57Z")
To me, it all boils down to where the authority for the “should” comes from If she should do it, who says she should? If she shouldn’t do it, who says she shouldn’t? If she should do it, and she doesn’t, where does the condemnation come from? Is an abortion like changing a haircut for a woman, something that will definitely be noticed, commented on, and while her decision alone, would affect her husband? Or is it more like cutting your nails, which is done all the time, is noticeable, but is small enough to be ignored? Politically motivated as I am, I think abortion should be thought of as the latter, because we’ve seen what it means for men and other busybodies to interfere with a woman’s choice, and so it should, in every possible situation, be seen as a small, non-event to promote the idea that an abortion is nobody’s business and isn’t a big deal. Therefore, I say that a Penelope should not treat it as an event, that just as she presumably doesn’t consult with her husband when she cuts her nails or buys oranges, she should feel similarly non-obligated to inform her husband of a small, trivial, non-event such as an abortion. Its not a big deal, its really not his business, nor should he ever try to make it his business, and both of them treating it as a normal occurrence will reinforce that idea ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/51 "2014-10-02T18:03:31Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > To me, it all boils down to where the authority for the “should” comes from > > If she should do it, who says she should? > > If she shouldn’t do it, who says she shouldn’t? > > If she should do it, and she doesn’t, where does the condemnation come from? > > Is an abortion like changing a haircut for a woman, something that will definitely be noticed, commented on, and while her decision alone, would affect her husband? > > Or is it more like cutting your nails, which is done all the time, is noticeable, but is small enough to be ignored? > > Politically motivated as I am, I think abortion should be thought of as the latter, because we’ve seen what it means for men and other busybodies to interfere with a woman’s choice, and so it should, in every possible situation, be seen as a small, non-event to promote the idea that an abortion is nobody’s business and isn’t a big deal. Therefore, I say that a Penelope should not treat it as an event, that just as she presumably doesn’t consult with her husband when she cuts her nails or buys oranges, she should feel similarly non-obligated to inform her husband of a small, trivial, non-event such as an abortion. Its not a big deal, its really not his business, nor should he ever try to make it his business, and both of them treating it as a normal occurrence will reinforce that idea The thing is, the question isn’t really about abortion. As jsgoddess points out in the post above yours, its about how one should treat one’s spouse. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/52 "2014-10-02T18:03:50Z")
Yes, she should. If there’s a reason why she can’t bring herself to ask, then that indicates that there are serious relationship problems. Why can’t she ask? Is she afraid of what he will say? Is she too insecure? A couple who can’t talk about these things isn’t very healthy. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/53 "2014-10-02T18:40:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The thing is, the question isn’t really about abortion. As jsgoddess points out in the post above yours, its about how one should treat one’s spouse. I would say then if we’re specifically talking about abortion, then no, she should not inform her husband. But, in something that doesn’t have a right-wing component trying to take away rights, then yes, she should. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/54 "2014-10-03T00:17:55Z")
What if Kevin had no desire for children and Penelope agreed to accept that, would Kevin be ethically obliged to tell Penelope before he got a vasectomy? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/55 "2014-10-03T00:19:49Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > What if Kevin had no desire for children and Penelope agreed to accept that, would Kevin be ethically obliged to tell Penelope before he got a vasectomy? In my opinion no, unless Penelope had previously made it very clear she had some sort of moral or philosophical objection to vasectomies. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/56 "2014-10-03T01:23:19Z")
My wife had an abortion. I didn’t want her to. She made it seem like she hadn’t decided, and went to get it done while I wasn’t home. I think she was going to make it look like a miscarriage. I found out before she could tell me, so I don’t know what she would have said. Up until it happened, I never thought she would. I think we both fall (fell?) into the “pro-choice, but wouldn’t do it ourselves” camp. Oh well. I wish I would have handled things better on my end. I’m personally a lot better off in many ways, but I have a lot of guilt over things like this. Even if I think the choice is morally OK. Should? I think so, just because in any relationship that’s something that needs to be discussed. Then if they have a difference of opinion, she decides. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/57 "2014-10-03T01:33:29Z")
Back when I lived in Salt Lake City, my neighbor quit his job and didn’t tell his wife about it for a month. They had savings, so it didn’t jeopardize them financially, but as the wife put it, the incident really made her rethink what how close they actually were. Foe most couples, then yes, she should talk to her husband, but she makes the ultimate decision. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/58 "2014-10-03T04:06:24Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > To me, it all boils down to where the authority for the “should” comes from > > If she should do it, who says she should? > > If she shouldn’t do it, who says she shouldn’t? > > If she should do it, and she doesn’t, where does the condemnation come from? > > Is an abortion like changing a haircut for a woman, something that will definitely be noticed, commented on, and while her decision alone, would affect her husband? > > Or is it more like cutting your nails, which is done all the time, is noticeable, but is small enough to be ignored? > > Politically motivated as I am, I think abortion should be thought of as the latter, because we’ve seen what it means for men and other busybodies to interfere with a woman’s choice, and so it should, in every possible situation, be seen as a small, non-event to promote the idea that an abortion is nobody’s business and isn’t a big deal. Therefore, I say that a Penelope should not treat it as an event, that just as she presumably doesn’t consult with her husband when she cuts her nails or buys oranges, she should feel similarly non-obligated to inform her husband of a small, trivial, non-event such as an abortion. Its not a big deal, its really not his business, nor should he ever try to make it his business, and both of them treating it as a normal occurrence will reinforce that idea Most women don’t feel that an abortion is like cutting one’s nails. Even for those of us who _are_ pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/59 "2014-10-03T04:52:35Z")
Hopefully that will change someday, to make it both easier legally and emotionally. Ideally, unless you had some kind of undeserved veneration for a fetus, people should want it to be easier emotionally. It doesn’t make logical sense that anyone who support abortion wholeheartedly wants it to be more difficult emotionally ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033/60 "2014-10-03T05:10:25Z")
A little post-note. Years ago singer/actress Madonna was married to actor Sean Penn for a short time and during that marriage she had an abortion. Which partly lead to their divorce because he wanted kids. Later on he remarried and had a baby with this new wife and Madonna, being a little jealous, contacted him and said “I wish you would given me a baby” and he said “I did, you aborted it”. Madonna incidentally has had about 11 abortions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortion-rights-supporters-ethically-should-a-happily-married-woman-get-her-husbands-opinion/700033.md?page=4)