# Abortionists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 25, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175 "2003-04-25T19:16:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/81 "2003-04-29T19:52:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*Someone who really, truly doesn’t consider a fetus to be a human being, or a person, or whatever term you want to use could just as easily accuse you of deliberately conflating two separate issues: the human being seeking treatment, and the fetus. They’re not at all the same, and it’s disingenuous to treat them identically. \*\* No, I am not conflating the two. I pointed out that _in addition_ to the question fo whether pregnancy through rape is a pathological condition that merits treatment, there is also the issue of regard for the unborn. In other words, these are two _parallel_ arguments, addressing two different aspects of the solution. This whole “mental health” issue is a collosal red herring, at any rate. Stress is certainly part of one’s mental health, yet no sane person would claim that being stressed out at work is necessarily a condition that requires medical treatment. Nor would one claim that being stressed out by one’s children is itself something that must be treated through medical means. That is why it is ludicruous to argue that these abortions are _medically necessary_ by appealing to one’s mental health. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/82 "2003-04-29T19:52:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*Someone who really, truly doesn’t consider a fetus to be a human being, or a person, or whatever term you want to use could just as easily accuse you of deliberately conflating two separate issues: the human being seeking treatment, and the fetus. They’re not at all the same, and it’s disingenuous to treat them identically. \*\* No, I am not conflating the two. I pointed out that _in addition_ to the question fo whether pregnancy through rape is a pathological condition that merits treatment, there is also the issue of regard for the unborn. In other words, these are two _parallel_ arguments, addressing two different aspects of the solution. This whole “mental health” issue is a collosal red herring, at any rate. Stress is certainly part of one’s mental health, yet no sane person would claim that being stressed out at work is necessarily a condition that requires medical treatment. Nor would one claim that being stressed out by one’s children is itself something that must be treated through medical means. That is why it is ludicruous to argue that these abortions are _medically necessary_ by appealing to one’s mental health. ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/83 "2003-04-29T23:29:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\*This whole “mental health” issue is a collosal red herring, at any rate. Stress is certainly part of one’s mental health, yet no sane person would claim that being stressed out at work is necessarily a condition that requires medical treatment. Nor would one claim that being stressed out by one’s children is itself something that must be treated through medical means. That is why it is ludicruous to argue that these abortions are _medically necessary_ by appealing to one’s mental health. \*\* What _exactly_ do you mean when you use the word “stress?” I am stressed when I have a hard day at work. I am stressed out when my niece is running in circles around the living room screaming at the top of her very strong lungs. That is not the same as the “stress” a woman might have in carrying the child of her rapist. Rape is a horribly traumatic event that can permanently damage a human being. It can cause immense feelings of guilt, shame, fear, depression, self-loathing… It isn’t the stress of a bad day at work or being frustrated by the bad behavior of one’s child. It’s Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. It’s a real psychological condition, and it’s terrible to face. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/84 "2004-06-04T15:36:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Well. looking at your cite again, it doesn’t really say the third-term abortions were purely elective, it says they were psychiatric difficulties with the women. That’s good enough for me to constitute a medical reason. It may not be good enough for you, but since you’re neither the patient nor the doctor it doesn’t really matter what’s good enough for you. > > Your prize “abortionist” basically says that he performed “thousands” of elective abortions in the second trimester (so what?) and that he performed third-term abortions (plural, no numbers, which means it could be two or three) because there were medical issues with the _woman_. Psychiatric issues count as a compelling medical reasons. > I cited a monetary incentive because it was the least absurd of the options, looking at it again, I think the doctors words were just twisted to to make it sound like he was performing third-term abortions by the thousands for purely elective reasons. That’s obviously nonsense. The doctor does not say once that he performed a single purely elective _third-term_ abortion. Since third-term elective abortions don’t happen, would you support a bill that outlawed elective third trimester abortions? (We’ll iron out what kind of cases would allow a third-term abortion before we send our bill to congress. But for the time being, let’s assume that it’s well written to cover physical and mental problems.) An unrelated question for pro-lifers - regarding “… rape or incest.” Why the provision for incest? If the incest was rape, then it should be covered by rape. If not, how is this pregnancy more deserving of abortion than one where the parents were not related? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/85 "2004-06-04T16:11:57Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > Since third-term elective abortions don’t happen, would you support a bill that outlawed elective third trimester abortions? (We’ll iron out what kind of cases would allow a third-term abortion before we send our bill to congress. But for the time being, let’s assume that it’s well written to cover physical and mental problems.) No. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/86 "2004-06-04T22:24:45Z")
I think the OP might make sense if the question were. How can surgeons who perform late term abortions for non medical reasons live with doing such a thing? Then seeing that only 0.1% of all abortions are late term, and only a presumably small fraction of those are for non-sound medical reasons we have to get some ball park figure for how many such abortions occur. We seem to have some testamonial evidence from people claiming to have performed unnecessary late term abortions (I’d say unnecessary equates to “no medical need”), so the question is how do those people who testified such information live with themselves, and why did they do it. None of this relates in any way to such surgeons who perform late term abortions for medically justified reasons, nor in any way to those who perform earlier term abortions. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/87 "2004-06-05T22:33:31Z")
I’ll be an abortionist if there’s a shortage. It’s an icky job but someone’s gotta do it. Kinda like being a soldier, ya know? ::rereads suction and D&C procedures and sterile scrub technique:: ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/88 "2004-06-08T17:37:28Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abortionists/171175/89 "2004-06-08T17:51:36Z")
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