So, Trump is not as considerate or transparent as Nazi Germany. Good to know.
Okay, you have determined that the US is at war with Iran. The IRS Dena was an Iranian warship, not a hospital or prisoner ship, and not flying a flag of surrender. Hence it was a legitimate target and not a war crime in any meaningful sense.
Sure, you can redefine any word to mean anything you want. But “war crime” is a specific term that means specific things, and this ain’t it.
That’s stupid. When you take words that have established, legitimate meanings, and redefine them for political purposes, that’s not an honest dialog. It’s lying. This doesn’t help anyone become better-informed, it’s propaganda. Propaganda is easily discredited, which makes the source less persuasive.
Look, I don’t like Trump or what he’s doing, but sinking a warship in wartime isn’t a fucking war crime and never will be. Either we’re not at war and it’s some type of illegal sinking, or it’s a war and it’s a legitimate target. Pick one.
I’m not really seeing the controversy over this. We are in a shooting war right now with Iran, regardless of if was “declared” or not, or the wisdom of that decision. An enemy’s frigate is a legitimate target in international waters, anywhere in the world. Whether they were going to or coming from an exercise, armed or not armed is irrelevant. It has guns, not our problem if they are carrying bullets for it or not.
Exactly. The whole thing sucks, and we need to be talking about eliminating Trump and his entire cabinet. It’s possible that it’s an “illegal war,” though that in itself is a complex discussion and I’m not the one to weigh on on that.
But the bleating about “war crimes” serves no useful purpose at all. If we’re all agreed that it’s a war, legal or not, then enemy warships are legitimate targets.
Have we declared war against Iran? Was it approved by congress?
No? So it’s not a war crime. It’s piracy by the US Navy.
The Lusitania was sunk in WWI. So Weimar Germany.
Under the circumstances I don’t have a problem with it being targeted per se, but given that it was known to be carrying no ammunition, and given that it was a guest in an exercise hosted by a friendly power, a surprise torpedo attack killing half the crew is grotesque, and frankly really insulting to India. Pull up alongside with and demand her surrender, take the crew prisoner, and sail the thing back to a friendly port to let your intelligence services go over it? Fine. Surprise torpedo attack and then fail to render aid to the survivors? Evil.
And I knew that, this was a Republican-level moment of stupidity on my part. Markwayne Mullin stupid.
But yes, Weimar Germany was no peach and not something you want to fall short of. At least Trump can claim inflation isn’t as bad in the US as it was there. (So far.)
Either way, this attack should be something looked on in history as a bad moment.
The Weimar Republic was established in 1918. You mean the German Empire.
Your nit picking my nitpick?
Only on the dope.
And what’s worse, you’re right.
Call it the Kaiserreich and we are fine. Empire? Perhaps it is called that in English, IDK, and Reich can be translated as empire, fine, but the problem of Kaiser Wilhelm was rather the lack of a proper empire. Just a handfull of lousy colonies. There came Wilhelm’s inferiority complex from. There, and his crippled arm, and his supine stupidity, and the fact that he was really an inferior human specimen all around, of course.
Thank you for your opinion. I think accusing others of “lying” is incorrect.
I respect that you want “war crime” to be very strictly defined in a very tight legal sense. I have explained why I disagree, and am using it in an informal sense.
The Iranian ship was an ocean away. It was not engaged in hostilities. It was not likely to engage in hostilities in the short term This is not WWII. The US attacked Iran while negotiations were underway.
It did not have munitions on board, as per the agreement with the training exercise. The American commanders knew this. It was not a current threat, nor was it likely to be a threat in the short term.
It could have been boarded. It could have been tracked.
But yes. It was not a technical “war crime” that will be prosecuted soon. Congratulations. I hope this helps you sleep at night.
But if we KNOW they don’t have bullets, ought we shoot them? Oughtn’t we at least give them the option of surrendering? Is our goal to take their weapons out of operation, or to kill defenseless members of the military?
And taking the ship and the crew could have given valuable information, what they call intelligence. But this maladministration seems to think they have enough of that on their own.
“You’re”
That’s what I’m saying!
I’ve mentioned several times that Donald Trump reminds me of him.
That impression is not wrong, but he transcends Kaiser Wilhelm and goes one step further, like this. I should have given him a pointy helmet, now you mention it.
Ought we let them sail back to Bushehr unmolested, load up their ammo, and then go after our Navy? War is not a fair fight.
With what, a sub?