# About the significance of birth as a landmark moment in attaining personhood.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-significance-of-birth-as-a-landmark-moment-in-attaining-personhood/526295>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [January 24, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-significance-of-birth-as-a-landmark-moment-in-attaining-personhood/526295 "2010-01-24T23:59:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 9

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**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\
**Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-significance-of-birth-as-a-landmark-moment-in-attaining-personhood/526295/161 "2010-02-01T22:16:38Z")

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> [@begbert2](#):
>
> Keep shoveling all you like; I’m sure you’re convincing _somebody_.

Convincing them of what? You’re the only one making an argument. 😉

> [@](#):
>
> Well, that’s a nice opinion you have there, sir, a real nice one. But in a thread about what the landmark should be for attaining personhood, I’d say that you have to do a little more than _declare_ that conception should be the marking point. Especially when your argument for it is that “potential” nonsense.

So you feel the need to belittle my declaration in order to advance your declaration? How’s that working out for you?

> [@](#):
>
> Hate to tell you this but we treat _kids_ as property until they turn eighteen. So I don’t envy you the wash of repugnancy you must be drowning in right now.

We do not treat kids as property. There is a difference between being a ward and being a possession. I could take a hammer to my computer right now if I wanted to, legally. Not so with my daughter.

> [@](#):
>
> And fetuses aren’t humans. Look, I can assert too!

You’ve been doing it all along. 😉

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**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\
**Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-significance-of-birth-as-a-landmark-moment-in-attaining-personhood/526295/162 "2010-02-01T22:34:21Z")

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> [@mswas](#):
>
> Convincing them of what? You’re the only one making an argument. 😉

Well, I’m sure you’re continuing to exchange now-content-free snipes with me for _some_ reason. What your reason is I don’t know (though I have a theory). I know the only reason I’m doing it because I’m annoyed by your smarmy bullshit attempts to pretend you’re right despite your arguments having collapsed.

> [@mswas](#):
>
> So you feel the need to belittle my declaration in order to advance your declaration? How’s that working out for you?

Hey look, smarmy bullshit!

And I said your opinion was nice - what more do you want me to do? I mean, aside from pretending that you _haven’t_ been blatantly assuming your conclusion on the topic of this thread.

> [@mswas](#):
>
> We do not treat kids as property. There is a difference between being a ward and being a possession. I could take a hammer to my computer right now if I wanted to, legally. Not so with my daughter.

You _can_ spank her little butt, though - in a way you can’t with kids that aren’t “yours”. Looks like we have a grey area here, huh? Oh, wait, that would damage your position? Must not be any grey area then!

Children are both property _and_ people - hence they get treated like six of one and a half-dozen of the other. Fetuses are certainly property, but are they people? That’s the question this thread asks. And yeah, we’ve heard _your_ opinion on the subject.

> [@mswas](#):
>
> You’ve been doing it all along. 😉

I’m sure you’re convincing _somebody_.

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