# About the South's glorious past **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 7, 2020, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672 "2020-07-07T21:31:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/81 "2020-07-10T13:45:16Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I grew up in Chicago. There was no Midwestern Pride and no Midwestern flag. I moved to Massachusetts. There was no New England Pride or New England flag. I’ve lived out west most of my adult life. There’s no Western Pride and no western flag. There was no need. > > If Southerners want to stop the heat they take, they might start by shedding the symbols of mistaken ideals and identifying as Americans who live in the south instead of Southerners who happen to be American This x 1000. The closest anywhere else comes to “Southern Pride” is the crazy shit my brother spouts about Michigan being a mitten. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/82 "2020-07-10T14:04:49Z")
Lake Woebegone is Midwestern Pride. Matt Damon movies are Boston Pride. There’s a whole genre of film and literature devoted to Western Pride. I bet you saw plenty of Patriots jerseys in New England, and plenty of Cubs gear in Chicago. Pride doesn’t necessarily mean a flag and a parade. It just means you’re happy to live or be from somewhere, and to participate in the culture of that region with other like minded people. Everybody has it on multiple levels. I like my high school better than the one across town. I like my town more than neighboring towns (or my rural route back roads land more than any of them city slickers’ urban homes). I like my part of the state more than other parts of the state (Chicago is nice to visit, but Southern Illinois is where it’s at). I like my state more than other states. I like my region of the country more than other regions. I like my country better than other countries. There’s plenty of culture and tradition to be proud of no matter where you’re from. History doesn’t end in the 19th Century. Just because assholes find it an easy excuse for waving Ku Klux Klan flags around doesn’t mean you can’t be proud of your Southern heritage without being a racist douchebag. Just don’t wave KKK flags or be a racist douchebag. Barbecue, jazz and A Confederacy of Dunces are all still great. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/83 "2020-07-10T14:18:13Z")
There are a few things the South could be proud of, but since they decided to bank their pride on hatred they are left with nothing, Everything else falls in the category of you know who being nice to dogs. This is not an indictment of everyone who ever lived south of the Mason Dixon line, it is an indictment of Southern Pride, which is in reality Southern Shame. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/84 "2020-07-10T14:35:55Z")
I’d like to rise and speak in defense of the South. I’ve lived in California all my life but I’ve long been fascinated by the South (it helps that I’m a college football fan) precisely because it’s so different and completely alien to everything I know. Flora, fauna, lifestyle, language, food, weather: all are nothing like what I’m accustomed to. And I like that. I don’t think I could ever live there – when I visit, it’s like: “So this is what humidity feels like. Fascinating. Quick, get in the car.” But if they want to self-identify as a region with a separate identity, I have no problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/85 "2020-07-10T15:54:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’d like to rise and speak in defense of the South. As one of the people on ‘the other side’ here I want to note… I’m not talking about people that happen to live in the south, things that are down here, or things like that. I was born and raised in the south and still live there, but I utterly reject the whitewashed history that people talking about “Southern Pride” or making appeals to “the South’s glorious past” want to put forward as reality. There are certainly good things in the south, but they mostly come from people that the “Southern Pride” crowd doesn’t like - blacks, hispanics, intellectuals, queers, non-housewife-women, and non-few-specific-sect-christians, among others. This cartoon sums up how a lot of us feel about ‘the South’s glorious past’. > ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/86 "2020-07-10T17:40:13Z")
As a Canadian I find that hilarious, but I do apologize for inflicting that on you 😆 ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/87 "2020-07-10T18:02:20Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Just don’t wave KKK flags or be a racist douchebag. And in that sentence lies the issue because that’s exactly what Southern Pride means, it has more meaning than personal pride, it is a political and social statement. In the UK our main racist party was the National Front, an thinly disguised Nazi party - during the 1970’s especially they wrapped themselves in the Union Jack flag claiming it for their version for patriotism. This pretty much poisoned the use of that flag at any public event due to its racist and Nazi connotations, our national flag was very near to being persona non-grata We took it back from them by celebrating our black athletes especially and having them parade and carry it around and literally furling themselves within it. We used it in many other ways to celebrate our nationhood as part of our identity , we made it ours again. The UK racist parties still try to claim it when they attempt their pathetic little marches but nowadays nobody is buying it. The Union Jack for Brits is largely a symbol of our national borders and is far less of a political statement. If you want Southern Pride to be about something else you’ll have to disassociate it from the meaning it has, and reinforced by certain idiots - that will be a very difficult task. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/88 "2020-07-10T19:36:28Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > taking credit for things that the non-citizens forced to live in the south did to make their lives better in between bouts of rape, back breaking labor, and torture? About the food. The whole point of “soul food” is that slave owners gave their slaves the lowest quality of food. Gristly meats, dirty unmilled grains, stuff like that. And they took that shitty food, and turned it into an amazing culinary tradition. Southern food is not something that _white_ southerners can take any credit for. And the music, of course. Those are things that black southerners should and could be proud of, but white southerners take the credit. It truly does show how pervasive racism is that white southerners would have a sense of pride off of what they stole from someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/89 "2020-07-10T19:43:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Those are things that black southerners should and could be proud of, but white southerners take the credit. It truly does show how pervasive racism is that white southerners would have a sense of pride off of what they stole from someone else. I’ve never seen white people taking credit for soul food. I don’t think there would be anything wrong with a white person taking pride in southern soul food if they acknowledge its origins. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/90 "2020-07-10T19:54:19Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Everybody has it on multiple levels. Speak for yourself - I have no national, regional, local, or school pride whatsoever. If anything the fact that I’m familiar with the things in question makes me more aware of their flaws. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/91 "2020-07-10T19:57:32Z")
Certainly the capitalized “Southern Pride” as it’s being used in this thread is just a thin fig leaf for racist Neo-Confederates to excuse their vile traitorous flag. I’ve never met anyone who claimed “Southern Pride” _except_ as justification for waving the shameful Klan flag. I just dispute that the shame should extend to lower case southern pride of the regular Joes who live in or come from the South. There’s a lot of great things about the South to be proud of. Though for historical and environmental reasons, it’s poorer and less industrialized than the rest of the country, it isn’t some backwards shithole full of ignorant yokels the rest of the country should be ashamed of. It does have a significant stain on its history, but if we look back far enough, nearly any culture will have stains almost as awful, if not worse. That doesn’t mean you can’t be proud to be American, or British, or whatever. Though I do look askance at anyone with an overbearing focus on nationalism. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/92 "2020-07-10T20:29:03Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Lake Woebegone is Midwestern Pride. Matt Damon movies are Boston Pride. There’s a whole genre of film and literature devoted to Western Pride. I bet you saw plenty of Patriots jerseys in New England, and plenty of Cubs gear in Chicago. Pride doesn’t necessarily mean a flag and a parade. It just means you’re happy to live or be from somewhere, and to participate in the culture of that region with other like minded people. > > Everybody has it on multiple levels. I like my high school better than the one across town. I like my town more than neighboring towns (or my rural route back roads land more than any of them city slickers’ urban homes). I like my part of the state more than other parts of the state (Chicago is nice to visit, but Southern Illinois is where it’s at). I like my state more than other states. I like my region of the country more than other regions. I like my country better than other countries I think you missed the point entirely. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/93 "2020-07-10T22:13:57Z")
You want to know about the South’s Glorious Past? It’s plantations, god bothering, and the Klan. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/94 "2020-07-10T22:16:29Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I think you missed the point entirely No he’s right. The Bourne Identity is definitely a Boston Pride movie. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/95 "2020-07-10T22:22:55Z")
How do you like them Blackbriars? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/96 "2020-07-10T22:44:19Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Though for historical and environmental reasons, it’s poorer and less industrialized than the rest of the country, it isn’t some backwards shithole full of ignorant yokels the rest of the country should be ashamed of. You will get a healthy amount of argument about that. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/97 "2020-07-11T00:11:23Z")
There was a certain amount of “Boston Strong” going around after the Marathon bombing in 2013. But it didn’t involve locals riding around in pickup trucks displaying flags with the likeness of Louise Day Hicks. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/98 "2020-07-11T00:34:41Z")
I’m not from the South. But as an American, I have some experience with “being looked down upon by the rest” because of my racist brethren, despite my own personal understanding of “the wrongs that were done.” Or rather, the wrongs that are being done, still, even right here in my own liberal coastal elite big city. But when I git my dander up about being stereotyped, I respond with my version of patriotism–dissent. Toward institutionalized racism, that is. I think of that great American author who said patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it. And I march, and donate, and call/email my elected leaders. I think of that other, more contemporary great American writer who coined the term NALTs, for Christians who go around telling gay people that Christians are Not All Like That, i.e. homophobic, when they should be saying it to one another instead of letting the institutional homophobia run rampant over their gay brothers in Christ. And I call out the racial blind spots I see in the people I encounter, so that the people being adversely affected don’t have to do all the work of educating everyone themselves. And I wonder if you, OP, as someone who does “feel it is past time for Confederate monuments to come down,” have done anything to make that happen, in between starting conversations on the internet about how unfair it is that people aren’t validating your southern pride. Because if I may steal from one more (anonymous, but could very well be American) wordsmith, if you’re tired of hearing about racism, imagine how tired your black neighbors are of experiencing it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/99 "2020-07-11T00:55:51Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Certainly the capitalized “Southern Pride” as it’s being used in this thread is just a thin fig leaf for racist Neo-Confederates to excuse their vile traitorous flag. This is really the key point. “Southern pride” as an expression almost always refers to something odious. Set aside “Southern Pride,” and our region has a lot of wonderful things that exist alongside the odious things. And damn right I’m proud of the accomplishments of black Southerners; not because they’re my deeds, but because they include some of the great deeds of my species. This is not the “pride” of a personal accomplishment, but rather the “pride” of a shared delight in something. I’m similarly proud of someone at my school who wins an award, or of someone in my union who gives an amazing speech, or even of someone in my city who builds a cool castle. “Pride” has more than one meaning, and it’s not always about something personally accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672/100 "2020-07-11T01:09:24Z")
I feel like people in the south have this sort of desire to be perceived as a sort of “American aristocracy” in the very literal European hereditary agrarian feudal state sense. I mean that’s what the Antebellum South pretty much was. And I think it drives a lot of those “sickly sweet” passive-aggressive and elitist affectations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-souths-glorious-past/914672.md?page=6)