# About the Vorkosigan books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 16, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913 "2025-11-16T23:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/281 "2026-06-24T01:14:45Z")
Certainly not all Vors are counts. They couldn’t be. If the Vors average more than two children (common both among aristocracy and warrior cultures, throughout history), then you’ll often get a count with two or more sons, and only one of them will inherit the title. The first son would be Lord Vor-whatever, and the second and subsequent would be Lord Firstname, but then those sons will have sons, and so on, and the son of a Lord Firstname probably isn’t any sort of Lord, but they’d still be Vor. It could be that the member of each Vor family with the most senior lineage is Count Vorwhatever, a count for every family, but with a bunch more non-counts than counts. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/282 "2026-06-24T02:17:38Z")
My question is: if there’s a fellow named “Joe Vorjetson” can I conclude that somewhere on the planet there’s a Count Vorjetson ruling Vorjetson’s District, who is Joe’s relative (possibly quite a distant one). Or are there Vor-blank families not associated with a Count and District? Lois does sometimes speak of High Vor, which could mean “Vor whose families have a district/Count” or “Vor closely related to their family’s Count or to the Emperor” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/283 "2026-06-24T02:37:20Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > My question is: if there’s a fellow named “Joe Vorjetson” can I conclude that somewhere on the planet there’s a Count Vorjetson ruling Vorjetson’s District, who is Joe’s relative (possibly quite a distant one). I think that’s most likely. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/284 "2026-06-24T03:32:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Certainly not all Vors are counts. They couldn’t be. If the Vors average more than two children (common both among aristocracy and warrior cultures, throughout history), then you’ll often get a count with two or more sons, and only one of them will inherit the title. The first son would be Lord Vor-whatever, and the second and subsequent would be Lord Firstname, but then those sons will have sons, and so on, and the son of a Lord Firstname probably isn’t any sort of Lord, but they’d still be Vor. It could be that the member of each Vor family with the most senior lineage is Count Vorwhatever, a count for every family, but with a bunch more non-counts than counts. I do recall the term “High Vor” being used a few times, by context to refer to Counts, Count’s heirs and so on. As opposed to “otherwise random family that happens to have inherited the prefix”. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/285 "2026-06-24T09:12:32Z")
“Science Fiction” is a reflection of the times, and I think the Vorkosigan books are at least partly the result of a time when women were particularly resistant to the idea of being “breeders”, used by men to create children. Bujold took Huxley’s advanced technology “hatchery”, but turned it into an idea where women were in control of their bodies, and outsourced the means of production, but not the control. I don’t think it’s an idea that would naturally ocour to as many people today. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/286 "2026-06-24T09:26:04Z")
I think it’s an idea that would occur to practically any women who wants kids. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/287 "2026-06-24T10:37:53Z")
And gay men. And straight men, too. It’s technology that would make things easier for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/288 "2026-06-24T11:19:30Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think it’s an idea that would occur to practically any women who wants kids. I think it’s an idea that would be _especially_ likely to occur to a woman who _has_ had at least one kid. The actual discomfort of pregnancy and pain of childbirth really strips away any romantic illusions about natural pregnancy, I think. Ekaterin in the books had just that experience, after all. I suspect it’s not a coincidence that Bujold herself has two children. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/289 "2026-06-24T11:24:18Z")
Yeah, after i posted, that thought occurred to me. I have two kids. The idea of outsourcing the actual pregnancy is incredibly appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/290 "2026-06-24T11:44:16Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > “Science Fiction” is a reflection of the times, and I think the Vorkosigan books are at least partly the result of a time when women were particularly resistant to the idea of being “breeders”, used by men to create children. If there’s a change in the times, it’s mostly in that, at that time, equality between the sexes seemed more attainable. The desire hasn’t changed, only the hope. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2026, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/291 "2026-06-24T12:21:08Z")
The increasing Barrayanization of Earth is certainly a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2026, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/292 "2026-06-26T02:26:47Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but I haven’t recently talked to any women who thought that “people think women should be breeders, like livestock”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2026, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/293 "2026-06-26T03:03:14Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I think the Vorkosigan books are at least partly the result of a time when women were particularly resistant to the idea of being “breeders”, used by men to create children. Bujold took Huxley’s advanced technology “hatchery”, but turned it into an idea where women were in control of their bodies, and outsourced the means of production, but not the control. Do you recall the Count Vormuir subplot in _A Civil Campaign_? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2026, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/294 "2026-06-26T12:34:49Z")
I’ll also note that, despite uterine replicators enabling true equality between the sexes, it also led to multiple societies where the sexes are far more unequal than they are in the 21st century first world (Cetaganda and Athos, at the least, though in very different ways). ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2026, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/295 "2026-06-29T00:08:48Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, after i posted, that thought occurred to me. I have two kids. The idea of outsourcing the actual pregnancy is incredibly appealing. Hah - yeah; having developed life threatening complications the second time around, if we’d wanted a third kid we’d have wanted a replicator for sure. I do love the bit in Diplomatic Immunity where Ekaterin speculates that it would really be bad for the MOTHER to miss her childen’s birth… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2026, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/296 "2026-07-10T23:47:13Z")
So, somehow I’d managed to skip over The Mountains of Mourning and The Vor Game before. I’m now in the process of remedying that. Just finished Mountains. I appreciate how, even though Miles has a miracle investigative tool available to him, he doesn’t treat it as such, and puts such value on his people’s dignity. I also think, though, that his sentence on the murderer was maybe a little too harsh… Not on the murderer, but on the victim’s mother. It’s been well established in the series, including earlier in that same story, that the Barrayaran custom of burnt offerings for the dead helps provide comfort, reconciliation, and closure for the survivors, and I don’t think prohibiting it for the murderer will do any good in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2026, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/297 "2026-07-10T23:49:14Z")
I think that if Harra decides to burn something anyway nobody will stop her, the law in Barrayar being enforced more in spirit than in letter. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2026, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/298 "2026-07-11T12:30:15Z")
She might stop herself, though. She strikes me as traditional enough to follow a command from her lord, even if that stands in the way of her own healing process. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2026, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/299 "2026-07-11T16:28:34Z")
May be, or may be if she can’t convince herself to break the lord’s command is because she doesn’t care enough, she was _furious_ when she discovered the truth. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2026, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/300 "2026-07-11T19:31:09Z")
IIRC, he meets with the mother again in _Memory_ (not quite sure where you are right now with the backtracking) and avoiding major spoilers, I can assure you that Miles assessment of Harra Csurik’s strength of will and character is correct. Of course, anyone who shortly after childbirth has the grit to cross the territory to approach her Count to demand justice is made of stern stuff! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=16)