# About the Vorkosigan books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 16, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913 "2025-11-16T23:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/321 "2026-07-15T02:48:59Z")
Or Cordelia, in one of the latest books. But i think the emperor of traditional Barrayar needs to be conceived the traditional way, at least for another generation. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/322 "2026-07-15T03:00:28Z")
This may be a spoiler, but it was mentioned in the later books that Emperor Gregor and, more importantly his Empress, didn’t agree with that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/323 "2026-07-15T12:28:21Z")
People try not to spoil **Chronos** , he hasn’t read many of the books you are referencing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/324 "2026-07-15T12:32:54Z")
I don’t think it’s a spoiler that the Emperor needs an heir and for that he needs an Empress (even if she’s not completely to his tastes), nor that Gregor, whatever his personal opinions, will eventually bow to duty. But thank you for the reminder. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/325 "2026-07-15T13:34:01Z")
I liked the description of Cavilo; “face like an angel, mind like a rabid mongoose.” > [@Chronos](#): > > And now finished The Vor Game. Initial thoughts: A thought I had a while back about Miles’ thoughts near the end of the book, after his friends say Cavilio kind of reminds them of him and he wonders “could that be him in twenty years?” I came to the conclusion that it _could_ happen if things went bad enough, that Cavilio is basically a failure mode for a personality like Miles. In some universe where future!Miles made enough of the wrong choices there’s an older version of him much like Cavilo. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/326 "2026-07-15T14:08:50Z")
Depends on what you mean by “a personality like Miles”. The aptitude for strategic planning and drawing order out of chaos, sure. But I would argue that that’s not the dominant trait of Miles’ personality. His sense of duty and loyalty (sometimes to Barrayar, sometimes to individuals, but always to someone) is. He’d be more likely to fail into an office functionary doing a boring but essential job that he hates but feels obligated to do for the Empire than into a Cavilio. Though, of course, he’d be much more likely to fail into being a corpse than to either of those. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/327 "2026-07-15T14:54:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Depends on what you mean by “a personality like Miles”. The aptitude for strategic planning and drawing order out of chaos, sure. But I would argue that that’s not the dominant trait of Miles’ personality. His sense of duty and loyalty (sometimes to Barrayar, sometimes to individuals, but always to someone) is. Yes, and he makes that point when he talks to her after he’s won. She had lots of brilliant plans, but she never stuck with one long enough to actually win. If she’d just chosen a plan and run with it, she’d have made out okay, but her inconstant dedication meant she lost everything. Miles will drop a plan if it’s not working, but he won’t drop one just because he suddenly came up with a different plan with different goals. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/328 "2026-07-15T14:55:46Z")
Yes, I think the key difference, and what would always save Miles from falling into Cavilo’s destiny is that Miles is _loyal_, he wants to be great but he wants to be great _for_ something bigger than himself. Cavilo thinks only of herself, always. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/329 "2026-07-15T15:05:02Z")
That’s part of why I called it a failure mode; that anchors him, but if he somehow _lost_ that anchor… Spoiler: For example, if he’d chosen to run off in _Memory_ and just be Naismith and only Naismith permanently, a true mercenary. No higher cause anymore, just “winning” and making enough money to keep the Dendarii running. Who know what he’d be like a decade or two later? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/330 "2026-07-15T15:11:13Z")
I Agree, but have some things I would like to add, but let’s wait until **Chronos** reaches that stage and then we’ll discuss it properly. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/331 "2026-07-15T18:46:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In some universe where future!Miles made enough of the wrong choices there’s an older version of him much like Cavilo. Or the wrong choices, enough _times_, for what seemed to be the right reasons? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/332 "2026-07-15T18:57:30Z")
I think it’s a pretty safe bet that the kind of person who fears becoming X is the kind of person who won’t become X, for any value of X. See also Gregor fearing that he’ll become a sadist. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/333 "2026-07-15T19:19:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think it’s a pretty safe bet that the kind of person who fears becoming X is the kind of person who won’t become X, for any value of X. Well, I’m sure he’d go _at least_ two falls out of three when choosing what he wants at the risk of becoming that sort of person. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/334 "2026-07-15T19:31:13Z")
Smoke and mirrors ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2026, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/335 "2026-07-15T19:46:06Z")
Spoilers for Memory [Two Falls Out Of Three](https://www.echoschildren.org/CDlyrics/TwoFalls.html) ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2026, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/336 "2026-07-16T17:52:45Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Well, I’m sure he’d go _at least_ two falls out of three when choosing what he wants at the risk of becoming that sort of person. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/337 "2026-08-19T23:21:12Z")
Finished Barrayar. I knew that Cordelia obviously had to be involved in the events of the Vordarian Pretendership, but I hadn’t expected she’d be quite that directly hands-on involved. But she’s right that if you want to get a bunch of Barrayarans to respect you, nothing beats lopping off some bloke’s head. I also thought that the precise mechanism of the teratogenesis was especially cruel. Soltoxin, itself, doesn’t actually cause birth defects. It’s the antidote to the soltoxin that did that. And was the whorehouse that Bothari frequented literally the one where he grew up, or was he speaking more expansively when he talked of getting away from it? Also, Bujold is the sort of author who can have a wise character describe a rapist as the bravest man she’s ever met, and really sell it. That takes a lot of finesse. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2026, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/338 "2026-08-19T23:43:10Z")
“I went shopping!” (I’ve seen a button saying “My mother went to Vorbarr Sultana and all I got was this bloody shopping bag”). Yes, soltoxin is epically cruel. This book is filled with some of my favorite moments from the series. > “That’s how we did it on the General Vorkraft.” > “You will not murder someone in front of me.” > “Will I not?” > “It wasn’t the result I intended. I meant to kill him. I didn’t even know for sure that you shared the same room at night.” He was looking everywhere, now, except her face. “I never thought about killing your…” > > “Look at me,” she croaked, “and say the word out loud.” > > “Baby,” he whispered, and burst into sudden, shocking sobs. And of course, Cordelia as a translator between Koudelka and Drou, and Cordelia’s doctor suggesting an exercise program. (the book does create a slight disjunction with “The Warrior’s Apprentice,” which gives the impression that a significant character’s death was not that long ago (rather than almost 2 decades earlier). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/339 "2026-08-20T00:25:09Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > “I went shopping!” (I’ve seen a button saying “My mother went to Vorbarr Sultana and all I got was this bloody shopping bag”). “Of course, all Vor ladies go shopping in the capital.” “I think I overpaid.” “That, also, is traditional.” > [@Andy\_L](#): > > And of course, Cordelia as a translator between Koudelka and Drou, “Where are you going?” “Between.” and “That gesture means that he’d rather sacrifice his entire life’s chance of happiness than endure a few minutes of embarrassment. Just ignore that.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2026, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/340 "2026-08-20T00:27:54Z")
Also, I have to note the Barrayar (the planet) has a serious suicide problem [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=18)