# About the Vorkosigan books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 16, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913 "2025-11-16T23:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/361 "2026-09-22T22:40:01Z")
Oh, and: > [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > Huh, I never thought about that … although the opposite problem had occurred to me, namely, that the procedure involves transplanting your old brain into a new body, but brain degeneration is the really _scary_ part of aging, and this wouldn’t seem to do anything about that. The Illyan-targeted pathogen was based on a patented organism that eats amyloid plaques from the brain, so that says that they do have treatments for Alzheimer’s… but at the same time, the patent was only ten years old, strongly suggesting that they don’t have an actual cure. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/362 "2026-09-22T23:43:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And the chip in Ilyan’s brain felt like it came out of nowhere, too. From “Shards of Honor” > “Yes. Lieutenant Illyan also has an eidetic memory biochip. You may think of him as a recording device with legs, which the Emperor may play back at will.” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/363 "2026-09-22T23:46:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The birthday references aren’t to anything official, but to personal recognition, and Cordelia, at least, considers the decanting to be “birth”. So I guess it’s just a mistake, but it feels like an unforced error, since it doesn’t really matter, and the story would have worked just as well with Ivan turning 30 a little ahead of Miles. From “Warrior’s Apprentice” > "What a scramble it must have been, making military research clean up after its own product. Lucky for me they’d imported those uterine replicators—yes, there they are—they could never have tried some of those treatments _in vivo,_ they’d have killed Mother. There’s good old Dr. Vaagen—ah ha! So he was in military research, before. Makes sense—I guess he was their poison expert. **I wish I’d known more about this when I was a kid, I could have agitated for two birthdays, one when Mother had the cesarian, and one when they finally popped me out of the replicator."** > > “Which did they choose?” > > **"Cesarian day.** I’m glad. Makes me only six months younger than you are. Otherwise you’d be nearly a year older—and I’ve been warned about older women . . ." This babble won a smile at last, and he relaxed a little. I suspect Cordelia counts the birth as the day she no longer protected Miles with her body directly, but had to rely on others, like Vaagen for his protection. Cordelia is Betan - but she’s _weird_ for a Betan (as well as being weird on Barrayar because she’s a Betan). ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2026, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/364 "2026-09-22T23:56:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m also a little surprised at how everyone, including the Emperor, agreed that it was just and appropriate for Ilyan to fire Miles, but then the Emperor immediately turns around and appoints him to a position of high trust. It’s been a while (and I think Memory is the one I don’t have an ecopy of) - did the Emperor specifically approve of the firing? Miles (I thought) was too ashamed of himself to even ask Gregor’s opinion on the subject. Now Gregor would probably approve of the firing - he’s smart enough not to overrule a subordinate unless he’s ready to fire **the subordinate** - but Illyan fired Miles from a position where he was out of range of any higher authority for months at a time, while Gregor put him in a position where his every action was easily monitored, so while Illyan could only find out about Miles misdeeds long after, Gregor had Miles on a short leash. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/365 "2026-09-23T00:45:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m also a little surprised at how everyone, including the Emperor, agreed that it was just and appropriate for Ilyan to fire Miles, but then the Emperor immediately turns around and appoints him to a position of high trust. Though the book does spend something like 2/3 of its length just on the aftermath of the firing on Miles, before the action starts. I’m going to disagree. Miles’ issues weren’t ever about the results he achieved, but how badly he fit into the Military or ImpSec, even under the loosest chain of command. What was remarkable, as is mentioned in Memory and other books, was that he survived as long as he _did_ under a structure when he was always bucking it, in search _of the best results_. He basically had to be fired, especially since there was an ever greater chance that _other_ subordinates would continue to lie to superiors and break rules in search of results, even if relatively few people knew what Miles was actually up to. Miles was always a square peg in a round hole from the very first event where he nearly ended up freezing to death after all… But his problem solving skills, as well as personal loyalty to Barrayar and Gregor are also nearly unquestionable. He’s had countless chances to screw both over to his own improvement and refused to do so even at considerable risk to himself. So Gregor can simultaneously trust Miles with his life and honor, and trust him to seek out the best solution for Barrayar, a key element for someone speaking with his voice. But NOT trust him not to ruin another commanding officer’s career (or sanity!) or end up breaking systems the nation thrives on in a search for adventure or excitement. Again, it was amazing (and largely due to Illyan’s knowing to be hands off) that Miles survived as long as he did. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/366 "2026-09-23T00:56:16Z")
Apropos of nothing in particular, I was introduced to these books by a co-presenter on a Shakespeare panel at a conference, whose argument was, basically, that they were a reimagining of what _Richard III_ would be like if Richard’s main objective was staying _off_ the throne instead of claiming it for himself. I feel like there is a lot of truth to that! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/367 "2026-09-23T01:36:05Z")
Hm, I had no memory at all of either of those references. There are so many new books to read… but I think I will have to go back and re-read all of these, after my first pass through. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > It’s been a while (and I think Memory is the one I don’t have an ecopy of) - did the Emperor specifically approve of the firing? Yes, when he’s in Illyan’s office and grasping at straws, he specifically asks if Gregor approved, and Illyan confirms that he did, and that it was the subject of a lengthy conversation between them. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > Miles was always a square peg in a round hole from the very first event where he nearly ended up freezing to death after all… From when that soltoxin canister came through the window, I’d say. That’s when he got a shape that wouldn’t fit into any Barrayaran hole. Until he got himself a hammer big enough to make a hole for himself, at least. Oh, and I do indeed approve of Gregor’s choice of bride, and I’m surprised that Aral and especially Cordelia weren’t more enthusiastic. They were both “This raises a lot of complications, but, well, we’ll support his decision”. But the Barrayaran Empire needs to have its unity reinforced, and a marriage between highly-placed individuals is a time-honored way of doing that. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/368 "2026-09-23T01:43:37Z")
Ha, I’ll grant you he forced his way into grudging acceptance by sheer will and competence. But I suspect even without the huge factor of his poisoned birth he’d have been an outsider. Cordelia would likely have educated him roughly the same no matter what, and he likely would have ended up looking at his own culture though the eyes of a semi-outsider no matter what. So he gets hammered by both nature (not genetic as he constantly makes note of!) and nuture. My opinion on Gregor’s choice of bride is that Aral’s generation thinks that Barrayar had been pushed as far as it could, as fast as it could, and that they should continue to take things so slowly. By the time of Memory and later events, Gregor and the younger generation are showing they’re a lot more willing to move, and even the older generation finds itself moving along with the tide. I think it’s actually well done in that sense - Aral and especially Cordelia have been pushing consistently from behind for decades. But suddenly, the younger generation is leading/pulling from the front and there’s several moments during the transition where you can see “But that’s not what WE planned?!” going through their minds. Hats off though, that Aral especially was willing to accept it, rather than try to hold onto the reins. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/369 "2026-09-23T01:52:02Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Ha, I’ll grant you he forced his way into grudging acceptance by sheer will and competence. But I suspect even without the huge factor of his poisoned birth he’d have been an outsider. > > Cordelia would likely have educated him roughly the same no matter what, and he likely would have ended up looking at his own culture though the eyes of a semi-outsider no matter what. > > So he gets hammered by both nature (not genetic as he constantly makes note of!) and nuture. Eh, I think that if it weren’t for the soltoxin, he’d grow up a fine physical specimen like Ivan, and the Plan A of his ambition, to go through the Academy and the Service, would go off without a hitch, and he’d probably be intelligent enough to actually deserve the nepotism he’d get (and which nobody would question, if he were a fine physical specimen like Ivan), but without the constant need growing up to hone that intellect to a razor-sharp edge to make up for his physical deformities, he would probably end up as a relatively high but otherwise unremarkable officer, not too different than dozens of other Vor-scion commodores and colonels. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/370 "2026-09-23T01:59:17Z")
Anything is possible, but I think you underestimate Cordelia. I point to Mark, who was twisted by his upbringing and circumstances, and completely unsure of who he was as an individual - the unhesitating acceptance of Miles and Cordelia fundamentally restructured his entire internal world. An ongoing process, to be sure, but that’s the sort of woman Cordelia is, and the sort of man she and Aral raised Miles to be. But there’s not a right or a wrong interpretation of “What If…?” scenarios. Just fun to argue about them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/371 "2026-09-23T02:33:16Z")
Oh, she’d have instilled her moral core on him regardless. He’d be a good officer. But he wouldn’t have his special edge. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/372 "2026-09-23T19:58:16Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I point to Mark, who was twisted by his upbringing and circumstances, and completely unsure of who he was as an individual - the unhesitating acceptance of Miles and Cordelia fundamentally restructured his entire internal world. That was probably one of the most emotionally moving things I’ve ever read. Mark is all, “I seem to have lost your mortally wounded son. Please don’t kill me.” And Cordelia is all, “Welcome to the family.” I tear up just thinking about it. I love _Mirror Dance._ ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/373 "2026-09-23T20:03:31Z")
The whole Mark plot is extremely moving, starting with Miles yelling “MARK! your name is MARK!” and “Miles what have you done with your baby brother?” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/374 "2026-09-23T21:03:27Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That was probably one of the most emotionally moving things I’ve ever read. > > Mark is all, “I seem to have lost your mortally wounded son. Please don’t kill me.” > > And Cordelia is all, “Welcome to the family.” > > I tear up just thinking about it. > > I love _Mirror Dance._ Or, from _A Civil Campaign_: When the dinner party goes up in flames, just as Aral and Cordelia are returning home: Ilyan: Do you know what your son has done this time?" Aral: Which one? Mark’s reaction to that is like a punch directly to my heart. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/375 "2026-09-23T21:31:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think I will have to go back and re-read all of these, after my first pass through. You won’t regret it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2026, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/376 "2026-09-23T23:47:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hm, I had no memory at all of either of those references. There are so many new books to read… but I think I will have to go back and re-read all of these, after my first pass through. It’s always a hard choice - go back to something you know you like and re-experience it (perhaps with some new insight), or read something new (I try to do both!) > [@Andy\_L](#): > > It’s been a while (and I think Memory is the one I don’t have an ecopy of) - did the Emperor specifically approve of the firing? > [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, when he’s in Illyan’s office and grasping at straws, he specifically asks if Gregor approved, and Illyan confirms that he did, and that it was the subject of a lengthy conversation between them. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/377 "2026-09-24T00:13:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Eh, I think that if it weren’t for the soltoxin, he’d grow up a fine physical specimen like Ivan, and the Plan A of his ambition, to go through the Academy and the Service, would go off without a hitch, and he’d probably be intelligent enough to actually deserve the nepotism he’d get (and which nobody would question, if he were a fine physical specimen like Ivan), but without the constant need growing up to hone that intellect to a razor-sharp edge to make up for his physical deformities, he would probably end up as a relatively high but otherwise unremarkable officer, not too different than dozens of other Vor-scion commodores and colonels. I don’t know. It’s clear that Miles has been driven all his life by the history-making careers of his father and his grandfather; he feels he has to live up to that legacy. That wouldn’t have changed if he had been physically fit. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/378 "2026-09-24T00:47:18Z")
Eh, kids dream all sorts of things. I was already writing Nobel acceptance speeches in my head at 15. I think he’d have eventually realized (as he did in this timeline) that admiral by 35 wasn’t going to happen absent another major war, which didn’t seem to be forthcoming (and which he’s too moral to engineer himself). ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/379 "2026-09-24T16:02:45Z")
He would presumably have been driven regardless given that everyone in the family is an overachiever, but without the injuries -and Piotr’s reaction to them- he wouldn’t have needed to learn manipulation skills or fight anything like the same level of prejudice and bullying as a kid. He’d probably have a lot more luck with the girls when he was younger as well. Some of the drive is clearly just wanting to follow in his father and grandfather’s footsteps, but a lot of it is just because he really _really_ doesn’t like being told he’s not capable of doing something, and that wouldn’t really have happened much if he hadn’t been injured, so his hatred of it probably wouldn’t be so strong either. Without having to fight so hard to be taken seriously in the military, even if he had been discharged for insubordination, it probably wouldn’t have hit so hard. It wouldn’t be yet another rejection to fight back against. Dedicating himself to improving the district or something else instead might have seemed like a reasonable option, rather than trying again and again to prove that he really could be a soldier. I mean, he literally wouldn’t have been _Miles_ if it wasn’t for the soltoxin. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/380 "2026-09-25T04:28:34Z")
I was just looking at a Bujold bibliography and I was stunned to see that _Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen_, which was effectively the last Vorkosigan book, was published in 2016. Has it really been ten years? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=20)