# About the Vorkosigan books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 16, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913 "2025-11-16T23:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/81 "2026-01-18T03:37:16Z")
Thanks. I was trying to think of Varley earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/82 "2026-01-18T04:53:55Z")
Jack L. Chalker wrote a lot of stories with gender oddness and transformation. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I can think of quite an old one that does, an entire society of people who are both male and female, which turns out to have been surgically accomplished in early infancy without the knowledge of most in the society, which is pretty much a utopia. I don’t remember the author (or much of the story) but I’m pretty sure the author was male. I probably ought to post it in the SF story identification thread. _[Venus Plus X](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_Plus_X),_ by Theodore Sturgeon. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/83 "2026-01-18T05:11:52Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Do I remember David Gerrold playing some with gender in a throw-away style in _The Man Who Folded Himself?_ He did in his Cthorr books. There’s an implant you can get in your brain that allows you to jump your consciousness into another person with the same implant. Lots of people jumping into opposite gender bodies in that series. Gerrold was gay, though, which is probably not unrelated to him being more willing to play with gender roles in his stories. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/84 "2026-01-18T06:09:02Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Do I remember David Gerrold playing some with gender in a throw-away style in _The Man Who Folded Himself?_ The protagonist encountered a female alternate version of themselves. They fell in love and had sex, the female version became pregnant, then they fell _out_ of love, and in the end hated each other. Then she gave birth to a boy and fell unconscious and he stole the child “(She will never know”) before leaving, then she gave birth to a girl and decided not to tell him (“He will never know”). And in typical time travel shenanigans, those children were both their younger selves. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/85 "2026-01-18T06:09:36Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I’m sad that the adaptation of Murderbot used a male actor. I expected them to use a male actor, but i was hoping for one who was less traditionally masculine looking. Surely murderbot looks androgynous. And also, i hopes for an actor less aggressively WHITE. Surely murderbot looked mixed race, of no obvious ethnicity. And there are American actors who could have carried off both of those traits. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/86 "2026-01-18T11:36:06Z")
Nm - ninja’d by Der Trihs ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/87 "2026-01-18T13:39:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And indeed, here’s a book written in 1986, and it’s just accepted (at least, in Betan society) that hermaphrodites are something that exist, and it’s no big deal. BTW, I was at a (Covid-era online) lecture by Bujold, and she claimed that one of her biggest regrets was making the Betan hermaphrodites’ preferred pronoun “it”, and that if she had written the books today they would probably have used “they”. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/88 "2026-01-18T14:11:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _[Venus Plus X](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_Plus_X),_ by Theodore Sturgeon. That’s definitely it; I remember in particular the line about worshipping children because it’s inconceivable that they’d obey them. Thanks; and also to @Andy_L. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/89 "2026-01-18T19:38:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The protagonist encountered a female alternate version of themselves. They fell in love and had sex, the female version became pregnant, then they fell _out_ of love, and in the end hated each other. Then she gave birth to a boy and fell unconscious and he stole the child “(She will never know”) before leaving, then she gave birth to a girl and decided not to tell him (“He will never know”). > > And in typical time travel shenanigans, those children were both their younger selves. So, basically “By His Own Bootstraps”, then? It’s not too uncommon for a science fiction author to write a book whose premise is exploring different sex/gender systems. What is unusual is a book about something else, where different sex/gender systems are just casually there in the background. Oh, and I’m also wondering how it’ll go down when Miles’ new crew all learns the truth. He’s holding up the house of cards for now, but that can’t last indefinitely. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/90 "2026-01-18T20:02:28Z")
I read right through the entire series a few years ago. The first book I read was _Falling Free_ as the prequel to the series. It isn’t part of the Vorkosigan saga, but it sets up the universe that the stories take place in. _Falling Free_ is one of the best things Bujold ever wrote. It’s a homage to her engineer father as the plot centers around guerrilla engineering. It turns into an exciting heist/jailbreak caper. If you liked _The Great Escape_ you’ll love _Falling Free._ It’s about people born in zero-G who are genetically altered to have two more arms in place of legs. Feet are useless in zero-G and another pair of hands is more efficient. The Quaddies become obsolete once artificial gravity is invented, but they still exist. One of their descendants becomes a notable character in the Vorkosigan saga: a musician who with 4 hands can play like nobody else. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/91 "2026-01-18T20:46:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not too uncommon for a science fiction author to write a book whose premise is exploring different sex/gender systems. What is unusual is a book about something else, where different sex/gender systems are just casually there in the background. This discussion reminded me of Isaac Asimov’s [The Gods Themselves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_Themselves). The aliens in the second part of the book have a plot-important three-gender system, so it’s not “just casually there in the background”; but it’s secondary to the main plot. I’m also reminded of a Gordon R. Dickson short story _The Odd Ones_ where gender being in the background is the plot twist in the story. A pair of advanced aliens of two different species watch a pair of humans setting up a small base on a wild planet, rather disapprovingly in the case of one of them because it considers it demonstrates them having “no moral fiber” to bring a “main” and “back up” explorer. After all, one of them is noticeably smaller, so _obviously_ they are there just in case something happens to the larger “main” human. The alien is exceedingly embarrassed to discover that humans are a _two_-gendered species, and that it had been observing a married couple while so totally misreading their relationship. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/92 "2026-01-18T21:49:33Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > The Quaddies become obsolete once artificial gravity is invented, but they still exist. One of their descendants becomes a notable character in the Vorkosigan saga: a musician who with 4 hands can play like nobody else. The Quaddies, including that musician, play an essential part of a later Miles story: _Diplomatic Immunity_. I won’t say more to avoid spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2026, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/93 "2026-01-18T21:56:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, basically “By His Own Bootstraps”, then? Highly derivative, as is true of a certain number of Gerrold’s earlier pieces. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2026, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/94 "2026-01-19T00:20:06Z")
Gerrold wears his Heinlein influences on his sleeve ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2026, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/95 "2026-01-19T00:38:27Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Gerrold wears his Heinlein influences on his sleeve. Varley wears them on both sleeves. And his hat, and every other piece of clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2026, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/96 "2026-01-19T00:50:40Z")
Agreed See these articles on Heinlein’s influences on three folks > **[Allen Varney: 21st Century Writers (1)](http://www.allenvarney.com/av_21st01.html)** > > First of three satirical 1986-87 fanzine articles about science fiction writers in the future. This installment: Heinlein Colony. > **[Allen Varney: 21st Century Writers (2)](http://www.allenvarney.com/av_21st02.html)** > > Second of three satirical 1986-87 fanzine articles about science fiction writers in the future. This installment: Varley Studios. > **[Allen Varney: 21st Century Writers (3)](http://www.allenvarney.com/av_21st03.html)** > > Third of three satirical 1986-87 fanzine articles about science fiction writers in the future. This installment: The Greatest of Them All. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/97 "2026-01-19T14:52:40Z")
I just re-read H. Beam Piper’s Uller uprising, in which the Ullerans are a true hermaphroditic species. It’s not a major point in the plot, but there are some references to it as part of building the world for the book. For instance, the human general who is the main character talks about having to learn some new things when he first commanded a company of Ulleran troops, like detailing some non-coms to manage the company’s day care center. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2026, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/98 "2026-01-20T02:11:14Z")
Oh, and I’ve now finished Warrior’s Apprentice. A lot of it is familiar from other works, except that’s just the old bit about “Shakespeare has so many cliches”: Those other works I’m thinking of all came after it. Bujold was clearly a major influence on, among others, David Weber and Howard Taylor. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2026, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/99 "2026-01-21T00:09:03Z")
The gut punch scenes - this is why I think it’s better to read in chronological order. There are things that happen in _Barrayar_ that add weight and dimension to the hard stuff in _Warrior’s Apprentice._ I find it hard to believe those would hit the same if you didn’t just read about them. ETA: removed blurred spoilers because I was suddenly worried those scenes came later in the series and I might misremember when they did come. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2026, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/100 "2026-01-21T08:50:15Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > ETA: removed blurred spoilers because I was suddenly worried those scenes came later in the series and I might misremember when they did come. Some key ones occur in the book set before Barrayar in fact, _Shards of Honor._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=6)