# About the Vorkosigan books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 16, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913 "2025-11-16T23:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/101 "2026-01-26T20:24:24Z")
OK, just finished Ethan of Athos, and I have to say that it was masterfully done. Like, it’s clear that the Athosian religion is pretty whack… And yet, Ethan, a devout follower of that religion, uses his religion as a vehicle for his inherent kindness. And the society based on that religion is actually fairly functional. To write something like that convincingly takes finesse. I’m also impressed that she wrote something so completely nonjudgemental of homosexuality in 1986. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/102 "2026-01-26T20:43:11Z")
I remember reading at the time that Jim Baen was rather upset by that book and told Ms. Bujold that there were to be no more books dealing with such subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/103 "2026-01-26T20:52:36Z")
I really liked that one. She could have written such a premise in a way that was trite or cliche, but instead she made it nuanced and moving in its own way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/104 "2026-01-26T21:20:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Like, it’s clear that the Athosian religion is pretty whack… And yet, Ethan, a devout follower of that religion, uses his religion as a vehicle for his inherent kindness. And the society based on that religion is actually fairly functional. I always figured that it was the result of despite their religious focus being an obsessive fear & hatred of women - having isolated themselves from women, they _had_ no women to torment nor as scapegoats to blame. So over time they drifted towards, not so much a more moderate position as a _calmer_ one; women were still “evil”, but none of them were _there_ so they were just an abstract issue that most likely didn’t think often about. Everyone had to get on with their life without targets they could focus blame or anger on, not when so much as media images of women were banned much less their presence. It’s hard to get all _that_ worked up about people you’ve never seen or heard, and who will never interact with your entire world. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I really liked that one. She could have written such a premise in a way that was trite or cliche, but instead she made it nuanced and moving in its own way. Or to use some modern slang I find quite fitting, she didn’t make it “cringe”. A number of writers have written stories and shows about alternate-social-structures that have made _me_ cringe, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/105 "2026-01-26T21:45:35Z")
Ethan is such a decent person, but Lois gives the Athosians a variety of characters, like Ethan’s no-hoper lover, his manipulative boss, the understandably upset hopeful father, etc. And Elli pulls off a maneuver worthy of Miles. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/106 "2026-01-26T23:17:24Z")
Her characters _are_ one of the best features of her writing. Often very interesting, very distinct from one another and very “real” feeling. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/107 "2026-01-26T23:29:02Z")
Yes, both in the Vorkosigan world, and also in the worlds of the Sharing Knife and of the Five Gods (Penric and Desdemona). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/108 "2026-01-26T23:41:48Z")
That’s next on my list! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2026, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/109 "2026-01-26T23:55:30Z")
The Penric and Desdemona books are a subset in the world of the Five Gods, but can be read as a separate series. [This Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_the_Five_Gods) gives the the full chronological series. ---
**Author:** ![vbob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vbob/32/4439_2.png) [@vbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vbob)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/110 "2026-01-27T00:11:45Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > The Penric and Desdemona books are a subset in the world of the Five Gods This lifelong atheist is absolutely enchanted with the theology and practices in the World of Five Gods, but if I WAS to take up religion here in my waning years, I think I would become a dedicat of T. Kingfisher’s Temple of the White Rat… ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/111 "2026-01-27T00:13:36Z")
I would prefer the Temple of the White Rat too, for a start the religion in WFG is not a religion, is practically a science, you can experimentally prove the existence of the gods. (That’s why I’m not a fan of those books, they pretend to be fantasy but are sci-fi) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/112 "2026-01-27T00:15:46Z")
Say rather they’re at the intersection of fantasy and science fiction. > [@vbob](#): > > if I WAS to take up religion here in my waning years, I think I would become a dedicat of T. Kingfisher’s Temple of the White Rat… Oh, yes, not least because the Paladins’ god is really, actually, positively dead. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/113 "2026-01-27T00:17:36Z")
YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/114 "2026-01-27T00:22:10Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > That’s why I’m not a fan of those books, they pretend to be fantasy but are sci-fi That might be why I like them. I’m not huge into fantasy, but they seem more grounded and less fanciful than what I commonly consider fantasy to be. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/115 "2026-01-27T00:22:55Z")
In any case, both Bujold and T. Kingfisher have created wonderful worlds to explore. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/116 "2026-01-27T00:23:24Z")
I do occasionally perform the Bastard’s tally. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/117 "2026-01-27T00:24:23Z")
I would rate them: Vorkosigan White Rat Wide Green World (Another sci-fi masquerading as a fantasy by Bujold, but somehow more tolerable) World of the Five Gods. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/118 "2026-01-27T01:47:33Z")
I do like how often someone in the WotFG series will use “theology” the way we’d use “physics” or “engineering”. Not as a way of saying somebody is transgressing (or following) the _words_ in some holy book, but referring to the actual metaphysics of the setting. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/119 "2026-01-27T02:23:56Z")
Along those lines, I very much liked the discussion of the Death Ritual in “The Curse of Chalion”. > **Substantial Spoiler for the Book, You are Warned** > > Summarizing, when Caz is speaking to the Divine of the Bastard, that attempting the ritual is a crime of intent, but when granted, it is de facto a miracle of the God - not a crime. Of course, even he acknowledges that nuance has always be theoretical - no in every prior case, the demon carries of the souls of both the petitioner and the target. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2026, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913/120 "2026-01-27T02:35:31Z")
Penric and Desdemona are my favorite before-bed popcorn reading. I liked the longer novels OK, except for _The Hallowed Hunt_, which never really grabbed me, but those are just the right length and ideal for re-reading whenever I haven’t got anything newer on my Kindle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-the-vorkosigan-books/1024913.md?page=7)