# About those 72 virgins waiting for you in Paradise...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 2, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194 "2015-12-02T06:21:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/1 "2015-12-02T06:21:52Z")
Is there anything in the Koran saying that those 72 virgins will, um, be willing to change their status once a faithful Muslim arrives? I mean, if not, what male adult would really want to spend eternity with, what, 72 12-14 female middle/junior high school females?
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### Author:  [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/2 "2015-12-02T06:28:50Z")
Be like one of those '50s Presley/Beach party movies one avoids so sedulously !
Still, even if they each and all gave of their bounty, that wouldn’t last eternity.
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/3 "2015-12-02T06:29:07Z")
Where does it say they’ll be young? Or attractive? Or female? Or human?
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/4 "2015-12-02T06:37:07Z")
> **[Houri](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri)**
>
> In Islamic religious belief, houris (Pronounced /ˈhʊəriz/; from Arabic: حُـورِيَّـة ,حُورِيّ, romanized: ḥūriyy, ḥūrīya),\[Note 1\] are women with beautiful eyes who are described as a reward for the faithful Muslim believers in Paradise. The term is used four times in the Quran, where they are mentioned indirectly several other times, (sometimes as azwāj, lit. companions), and Hadith provide a "great deal of later elaboration". They have been said to have "captured the imagination of Musl In class...
apparently everyone gets more than one in Islamic Paradise, not just martyrs, but the 72 number is weak at best.
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### Author:  [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/5 "2015-12-02T07:02:23Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> Where does it say they’ll be young? Or attractive? Or female? Or human?
What if its a misspelling somewhere and its really a 74 year old virgin?
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/6 "2015-12-02T07:05:01Z")
It’s a verse from Surah al-Naba, chapter 78 in the Qur’an.
> [@](#):
>
> 78:6-38
> Have We not made the earth a resting place?
> And the mountains as stakes?
> And We created you in pairs
> And made your sleep [a means for] rest
> And made the night as clothing
> And made the day for livelihood
> And constructed above you seven strong [heavens]
> And made [therein] a burning lamp
> And sent down, from the rain clouds, pouring water
> That We may bring forth thereby grain and vegetation
> And gardens of entwined growth.
> Indeed, the Day of Judgement is an appointed time -
> The Day the Horn is blown and you will come forth in multitudes
> And the heaven is opened and will become gateways
> And the mountains are removed and will be [but] a mirage.
> Indeed, Hell has been lying in wait
> For the transgressors, a place of return,
> In which they will remain for ages [unending].
> They will not taste therein [any] coolness or drink
> Except scalding water and [foul] purulence -
> An appropriate recompense.
> Indeed, they were not expecting an account
> And denied Our verses with [emphatic] denial.
> But all things We have enumerated in writing.
> “So taste [the penalty], and never will We increase you except in torment.”
> Indeed, for the righteous is attainment -
> Gardens and grapevines
> And full-breasted [companions] of equal age
> And a full cup.
> No ill speech will they hear therein or any falsehood -
> [As] reward from your Lord, [a generous] gift [made due by] account,
> [From] the Lord of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, the Most Merciful. […]
A lot of non-Muslims seem to get really hung up on this particular aspect of material pleasure in the promised afterlife, but it’s not that different from, say, descriptions of Gan 'Eden or the paradise of the righteous in the [Jewish Midrash](http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11900-paradise):
> [@](#):
>
> The Midrash Agada gives, with cabalistic coloring and vivid imagination, a detailed description of paradise. Dimensions of the chambers, etc., are furnished; and the particulars contained are graphically stated in various forms of legendary narratives. […]
>
> "The Gan 'Eden at the east measures 800,000 years (at ten miles per day or 3,650 miles per year). There are five chambers for various classes of the righteous. The first is built of cedar, with a ceiling of transparent crystal. This is the habitation of non-Jews who become true and devoted converts to Judaism. They are headed by Obadiah the prophet and Onḳelos the proselyte, who teach them the Law. The second is built of cedar, with a ceiling of fine silver. This is the habitation of the penitents, headed by Manasseh, King of Israel, who teaches them the Law.
>
> “The third chamber is built of silver and gold, ornamented with pearls. It is very spacious, and contains the best of heaven and of earth, with spices, fragrance, and sweet odors. In the center of this chamber stands the Tree of Life, 500 years high. […] The Tree of Life is like a ladder on which the souls of the righteous may ascend and descend. In a conclave above are seated the Patriarchs, the Ten Martyrs, and those who sacrificed their lives for the cause of His Sacred Name. These souls descend daily to the Gan 'Eden, to join their families and tribes, where they lounge on soft cathedras studded with jewels. Everyone, according to his excellence, is received in audience to praise and thank the Ever-living God; and all enjoy the brilliant light of the Shekinah. The flaming sword, changing from intense heat to icy cold and from ice to glowing coals, guards the entrance against living mortals. The size of the sword is ten years. The souls on entering paradise are bathed in the 248 rivulets of balsam and attar. […]”
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### Author:  [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/7 "2015-12-02T07:31:40Z")
The jewish verse you quote describes something lavish but not suggestive in any way.
Here’s some relevant quotes:
"A houri is a most beautiful young woman with a transparent body. The marrow of her bones is visible like the interior lines of pearls and rubies. She looks like red wine in a white glass. She is of white color, and free from the routine physical disabilities of an ordinary woman such as menstruation, menopause, urinal and offal discharge, child bearing and the related pollution. A houri is a girl of tender age, having large breasts which are round (pointed), and not inclined to dangle. Houris dwell in palaces of splendid surroundings.
— Al-Tirmidhi, Jami` at-Tirmidhi
Ibn Kathir also stated that Muhammad confirmed that there would be sexual intercourse in Paradise.
Kathir (2000). “The Reward of Those on the Right After”.
Taken together with the fact that every believer gets more than one Houri as their wife, well what other conclusion can you come to?
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### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/8 "2015-12-02T08:53:13Z")
That the houri is an ideal of feminine beauty, and that people who focus on their virginity and sexual availability are obsessed with sex?
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/9 "2015-12-02T09:01:51Z")
It’s a lie! What they _don’t_ tell you is that, once in Heaven by their saintly virtue, those virgins must _remain_ virgins! For all eternity.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/10 "2015-12-02T09:53:41Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> The jewish verse you quote describes something lavish but not suggestive in any way.
😕 I wasn’t claiming that those Midrash passages were “suggestive”, if by that you mean sexual. I was just pointing out that both the Muslim and Jewish descriptions of Paradise emphasize the material pleasure and luxury of the surroundings.
Anyway, there **are** Jewish writings that describe copulation occurring in Paradise where the righteous pass their afterlife, such as the [_Seder Gan 'Eden_](https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=pxDlVVAX9_gC&pg=PA106#v=onepage&q&f=false):
> [@](#):
>
> It is at midnight that God comes with the righteous to listen to the voice of the turn of the firmament […] and the righteous are ascending from their mansions toward their Creator, and the entire garden is filled by His glory. At that time, the male and female spirits are copulating, as it was before they had been created. And out of this pleasantness of their desire to see the pleasantness of God, all produce fruit, and from their fruit the spirits of the converts [to Judaism] emerge.
Which is similarly described [elsewhere in the Midrash](https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=60iVk1p8Y9IC&pg=PA190) as follows:
> [@](#):
>
> There are six palaces in Paradise where the souls of the righteous women make their home. […] All day long the women are by themselves, as are the men, for there is a curtain spread out in Paradise that separates them. But every night they come together at midnight, for that is the hour of copulation. Then they cleave soul to soul and light to light, and the fruit of this union are the souls of those who become converts to Judaism.
So you see, the concept of there being sexual intercourse for the spirits of the dead in the afterlife is not an exclusively Muslim one. Nor does it seem to have been a particularly daring notion for any medieval Abrahamic religion except Christianity, which of course has always tended to equate sexual purity with celibacy.
Medieval mystical Jewish and Muslim visions of Paradise seem to have been more straightforwardly hedonic in conceiving the material aspects of the afterlife: Paradise is where the righteous souls are eternally joyful, sex is joyful, so the righteous souls have sex, big deal.
Modern western culture and spirituality, of course, have been heavily influenced by Christian thought, which is why the idea of sex in heaven seems so shocking and almost perverse even to many people nowadays who don’t consider themselves Christian.
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/11 "2015-12-02T11:15:53Z")
> [@coremelt](#):
>
> Taken together with the fact that every believer gets more than one Houri as their wife, well what other conclusion can you come to?
Apparently, according to the same wikipedia article, you can also come to the conclusion that those martyrs will be presented 72 white raisins (along with wine, etc…) rather than 72 virgins. :smack:
Not engaging in the Jihad until I get some clarifications about this raisins/virgins thing. I hate contracts with tricky clauses like that.
Also, for potential jihadists who happen to be homosexual, there should be pretty boys too (still according to the same wikipedia article). So, don’t renounce just because you have no interest in girls.
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/12 "2015-12-02T11:18:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> 😕 I wasn’t claiming that those Midrash passages were “suggestive”, if by that you mean sexual. I was just pointing out that both the Muslim and Jewish descriptions of Paradise emphasize the material pleasure and luxury of the surroundings.
Christian litteralists also believe they’ll end up in houses made of gold.
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### Author:  [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/13 "2015-12-02T11:41:59Z")
QFT
> [@Billy Connelly](#):
>
> Give me two fire breathing whores any day of the week.
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### Author:  [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/14 "2015-12-02T13:53:15Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> Apparently, according to the same wikipedia article, you can also come to the conclusion that those martyrs will be presented 72 white raisins (along with wine, etc…) rather than 72 virgins. :smack:
>
> Not engaging in the Jihad until I get some clarifications about this raisins/virgins thing. I hate contracts with tricky clauses like that.
>
> Also, for potential jihadists who happen to be homosexual, there should be pretty boys too (still according to the same wikipedia article). So, don’t renounce just because you have no interest in girls.
Cristoph Luxenberg is the penname of a scholar who wrote “The Syro-Aramaic Reading of the Qur’an” to much controversy. He argued that the Qur’an was based on Syro-Aramaic Christian texts that got haphazardly translated into classical Arabic by the compilers of the Qur’an, leading to many misinterpretations - the raisins thing being one.
It’s a very interesting work despite its general inaccessibility, more because of what it represents in terms of how Qur’anic scholarship in the west is evolving than in the correctness of his theory. Any of his conclusions should be taken with a huge grain of salt, and in any case should not obscure the fact that recorded Islamic civilizations have not operated under his assumptions.
Similarly, the contention in the (awful) Wikipedia article that there are also male houris that believing women get to have sex with in heaven is new to me, I’d be very interested to see if anyone was suggesting that before 1900. The mainstream historical scholarly understanding, IIRC, is that women are entitled to be with their husbands only in the afterlife, and may be made very beautiful if they were virtuous. All men still receive houris, though, not just martyrs.
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### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/15 "2015-12-02T14:08:34Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> Christian litteralists also believe they’ll end up in houses made of gold.
Not so.
- I Corinthians 2:9, NIV. “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him.”\*
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/16 "2015-12-02T14:17:46Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#):
>
> Not so.
>
> - I Corinthians 2:9, NIV. “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him.”\*
Revelation 21:16-21
> [@](#):
>
> 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal.
> 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.
> 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
> 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald,
> 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.
> 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.
Sounds pretty high rent to me. 😃
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/17 "2015-12-02T14:25:18Z")
Well, coach, that’s just the New Jerusalem, I should hope there are some nice suburbs for those whose tastes are not too urban ;). And it doesn’t say WHAT you’ll be doing there in between chanting praise to the Big Chief.
One thing to be observed when looking at this theme, is that many parts of the common Judeo-Christian-Islamic interpretations of “life in paradise” are NOT taken from the core Scripture (Bible, Qur’an) but from ancillary texts (Midrash, Hadith), or from commentary of various rabbis/imams/church fathers, or even from outright _fiction_ (Dante) or mere folk tradition sometimes from pagan times.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/18 "2015-12-02T14:31:26Z")
So, houris are like grapes that dry out and end up as raisins?
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/19 "2015-12-02T16:18:50Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> It’s a lie! What they _don’t_ tell you is that, once in Heaven by their saintly virtue, those virgins must _remain_ virgins! For all eternity.
Then Heaven is in fact Hell.
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### Author:  [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-72-virgins-waiting-for-you-in-paradise/739194/20 "2015-12-02T16:45:48Z")
The Master speaks
> **[Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343466/does-the-koran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins)**
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