# About those Latin plurals... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 16, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905 "2005-12-16T14:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ashlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ashlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashlie)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/1 "2005-12-16T14:00:00Z")
As a classics major, I can tell you pretty straightforwardy that it is an arrogant classicist indeed who will scorn you for your incorrect use of Latin plurals. We, as much as or more than other folks, realize that language is a living thing (the rules we do have are for the convenience of understanding each other). Any Latinist will understand what _peni or penii_ means, if that’s the plural you chose. I would bet a few of us are fairly guilty of using those plurals ourselves, since they are one option in informal English. Cecil’s own nasal-gazing in his explanation of Latin plurals in English is exactly why folks shy away from classics at times. Not every classicist is so elitest. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/2 "2005-12-16T16:10:30Z")
I’m assuming this is about **Bibliophage’s** column on [Latin plurals](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mplurals.html). As Bibliophage points out, the usual English plural of “penis” is “penises”, although some medical-types use the correct Latin plural “penes”. I’m only an amateur classicist, but if I came across the word _peni_ or _penii_ I would think the text was talking about [food provisions or sanctuaries from multiple temples of Vesta](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3D%2334587), but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/3 "2005-12-16T16:19:10Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, ashlie. When you comment on a column it is appreciated if you provide a link to the same so everyone is on the same page. I don’t know that Cecil has done a column on Latin plurals, so I presume you’re referring to the Staff Report [What is the plural of " penis"?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mplurals.html) Staff Reports are not written by Cecil but by his unworthy minions. As a result, I’ll move this thread to the forum for comments on Staff Reports. Incidentally, I am the arrogant elitist who wrote that particular report. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to gazing at my nose. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/4 "2005-12-16T17:41:45Z")
I think the point is that being pretensious is OK, so long as you’re correctly pretensious. If you want to talk like common folks, the plural of “penis” is “penises”. Well, ok, it’s probably actually “dicks”. If you want to use the Latin form, then it’s “penes”. “Penii” is not the correct Latin form, and if you don’t know enough Latin to know that, that’s fine. But if you don’t know Latin, then why are you trying to use the Latin forms? ---
**Author:** ![Farmwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Farmwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmwoman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/5 "2005-12-16T23:13:56Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to get back to gazing at my nose. That made milk come out of my belly button. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/6 "2005-12-17T00:47:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the point is that being pretensious is OK, so long as you’re correctly pretensious. … Heheh - Deliberate? 😃 I do agree, though. People who try to show off by pretending to know more than they do are stupid pricks. Of course, now I’ll be thinking about this all evening. Um, I meant the subject of plural words. That’s what I meant. Yes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/7 "2005-12-17T01:53:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the point is that being pretensious is OK, so long as you’re correctly pretensious. Case in point: it’s “pretentious”. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/8 "2005-12-17T13:48:37Z")
That has to be a new corallary to Gaudere’s Law, don’t you think? :smack: As to the OP: I wouldn’t _ridicule_ anyone for saying “peni”, I’d simply think them to be quite ignorant and somewhat stupid for trying to use words they don’t understand. If, as a classical scholar, you tend to use such abominations, then I am afraid I would add to the list in your case a fairly low opinion of your scholarliness. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/9 "2005-12-17T14:53:53Z")
One does note that octopus has three plurals, all given as correct by any worthwhile dictionary: Octopuses (the most common), octopodes (the Greek), and octopi (the faux-Latin.) The topic of pluralizing is confusing: for instance, two Ph.D.s discussing romance languages would be a paradox. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/10 "2005-12-17T15:08:55Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > The topic of pluralizing is confusing: for instance, two Ph.D.s discussing romance languages would be a paradox. Go to your room. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/11 "2005-12-17T15:23:28Z")
This is what we get for living in today’s pluralistic society. ---
**Author:** ![Kiminy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Kiminy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiminy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/12 "2005-12-17T18:04:35Z")
Apparently something similar happened on final episode of the The Apprentice. I didn’t actually watch it myself, but the morning radio show I listen to on the way to work has decided that The Apprentice, Survivor, etc. are headline news, so they gave a summary of the results. Apparently Trump gave his first choice person the option of letting him hire the second place person, too. The winner’s answer was that since the show is named “The Apprentice”, not “The Apprenti”, there should be only one winner. _wince_ ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/13 "2005-12-17T18:11:16Z")
To further the cause of edification, I should like to mention that the technical term for this is [cacozelia](http://www.figarospeech.com/it-figures/2005/10/16/magically-babe-licious.html). Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/14 "2005-12-17T18:20:01Z")
> [@Kiminy](#): > > Apparently something similar happened on final episode of the The Apprentice. I didn’t actually watch it myself, but the morning radio show I listen to on the way to work has decided that The Apprentice, Survivor, etc. are headline news, so they gave a summary of the results. Apparently Trump gave his first choice person the option of letting him hire the second place person, too. The winner’s answer was that since the show is named “The Apprentice”, not “The Apprenti”, there should be only one winner. > > _wince_ My mother was watching that the other day. The most galling part was that the winner’s strongest point was his wonderful education. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/15 "2005-12-19T13:23:31Z")
> [@](#): > > One does note that octopus has three plurals, all given as correct by any worthwhile dictionary: Octopuses (the most common), octopodes (the Greek), and octopi (the faux-Latin.) The topic of pluralizing is confusing: for instance, two Ph.D.s discussing romance languages would be a paradox. The topic of plurals Is Confusing, Bless my Soul Did it ever occur to you That the plural of _Half_ is _Whole_. … …and when Ben Casey meets Kildare They call it a Paradox. ``` --Allan Sherman ``` ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-latin-plurals/335905/16 "2005-12-19T20:39:50Z")
> [@ashlie](#): > > Any Latinist will understand what _peni or penii_ means, if that’s the plural you chose. I would bet a few of us are fairly guilty of using those plurals ourselves, since they are one option in informal English. Well, no, they are not really an “option” in informal English. They are an “option” only for those who are pretentiously pretending an erudition they do not possess. “Penises” is a perfectly good plural in English. There is really no need to use any other plural in informal English. While a Latinist will undoubtedly understand what _peni_ or _penii_ is supposed to mean, it would have to be a remarkably bad one who would actually use either one. If you don’t know the correct way to use a word, whether in English or Latin, the best “option” is not to use it, unless you want to appear ignorant.