# About those RC quad copter drones... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2015, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493 "2015-02-01T05:15:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/81 "2015-02-04T11:20:01Z")
[All you need is a rugby ball and a good arm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOod4PpWavQ)… ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/82 "2015-02-04T11:44:11Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Still waiting for an example. All either of you did was huff and puff some more. Like [this](http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/09/30/new-jersey-man-accused-of-shooting-down-neighbors-remote-control-drone/)one. "“Possession of a Weapon for an Unlawful Purpose and Criminal Mischief.” So that’s 1 man in jail for shooting a drone down with a shotgun. There’s also [this](http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Flying-Camera-From-Animal-Rights-Group-Shot-Down-at-Pigeon-Shoot-Cops-179983451.html)one. Don’t know if the cops arrested anyone - but they didn’t blow the crime off. It’s destruction of $4k worth of property, and it’s blatantly illegal. Property owners do not have the right to the airspace over their property, and have not for [decades](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights). The FAA owns it. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/83 "2015-02-04T13:10:21Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Like [this](http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/09/30/new-jersey-man-accused-of-shooting-down-neighbors-remote-control-drone/)one. "“Possession of a Weapon for an Unlawful Purpose and Criminal Mischief.” So that’s 1 man in jail for shooting a drone down with a shotgun. > > There’s also [this](http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Flying-Camera-From-Animal-Rights-Group-Shot-Down-at-Pigeon-Shoot-Cops-179983451.html)one. Don’t know if the cops arrested anyone - but they didn’t blow the crime off. It’s destruction of $4k worth of property, and it’s blatantly illegal. Property owners do not have the right to the airspace over their property, and have not for [decades](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights). The FAA owns it. First one is a swing and a miss on your part. Not a single mention, anywhere in the article, about the Feds giving a wet fart about the incident. Local cops are mentioned and my guess is that any charges filed have to do with discharging the firearm and the drone has no more special status than if he’d destroyed his neighbor’s ornamental shrubbery. Strike two on the second link. Still no Feds, just Coal and Iron Cops. No charges filed. Nothing to indicate that the drone has any particular protected status. The only comments from the DA indicate that he considers it to be bad judgement on the part of the drone operators to harass the peigeon shooters. Strike three and you’re out on the last link. It’s just more vaguely related huffiing and puffing from you. I asked for examples of Federal charges being filed over destruction of one of these toy helicopters, not a history of airspace law. You utterly failed to provide that. Why don’t you just admit that you’ve been indulging in wishful thinking about how it would be if you were President of the World? p.s. I’m done responding to hypotheticals and nonsense. Until you come back with facts, we are done. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/84 "2015-02-04T13:20:54Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Meanwhile…give one example of someone actually shooting down a drone. Has this actually happened at all? When it does, we’ll find out how seriously Federal attorneys take it. You seem to imagine they’ll turn away from it and pretend they didn’t see it. Yer buddy **Habeed** provided cites for me. He gave a couple examples of drones being shot down and the Feds are conspicuous by their absence. No matter how much you want to spin it that destroying one of these expensive toys is a federal crime, there is no evidence that it is. Pointing at charges filed locally centering around firearms use are neither here nor there…especially since I never mentioned using a firearm at all. You also need to come back with facts or we are done. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/85 "2015-02-04T13:41:02Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > Give it a rest with the hypotheticals. > > [Drones have killed thousands of people for real.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/obama-drone-program-anniversary_n_4654825.html) Speaking of fighting the hypothetical, do you see a difference between a military drone the size of a small fighter jet firing Hellfire missiles and an electrical quad copter the size of a toaster oven taking pictures with a cell phone camera? ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/86 "2015-02-04T14:20:03Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General. > > d. Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph B or C of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator. > > So, by the laws of the land, **operating a UAV helicopter (a quadcopter is just a variant of one) is permitted at any (safe) altitude anywhere in the nation**. It might be a grey area if the drone operator doesn’t have a license for the aircraft and drone - but that’s going to be changing very shortly. > > Shooting it down is a felony. It’s a grey area if it’s flying so low to be considered unsafe to your person. For example if someone flew their quadcopter over the fence 5 feet over your head to buzz your barbecue, you could probably shoot or grab the drone. But if it’s 100 feet up, above the nearby obstructions to flight, then you’re risking trouble with the Feds. > > Instead of using a shotgun, get some curtains. These things are going to become a heck of a lot more common in the future. While the FAA recognizes that little quadcopters are aircraft, I’ve seen no info that they treat them the same as helicopters. Do you have a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/87 "2015-02-04T14:40:48Z")
It’s dual jurisdiction. Others in here have established that shooting down someone’s drone is a Federal crime by quoting the relevant section. It’s also a state crime. I have yet to see a link where someone shot down a drone and _didn’t_ have the police on their ass for their crimes. Others in here are say “hurr durr all I have to do is say the drone was trying to catch my wife sunbathing topless/creep on my kids and that’ll make the 5-0 let me get away with a felony…” If you rob a bank, it’s both a Federal and a state crime. It depends on lots of factors which charges you face. I’ve read that you want the Feds to pound your ass, because their prisons are less inhumane, but in any case, robbing banks is illegal, and destroying other’s aircraft (who are _not_ trespassing) is also illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/88 "2015-02-04T14:44:48Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > While the FAA recognizes that little quadcopters are aircraft, I’ve seen no info that they treat them the same as helicopters. Do you have a cite? A quadcopter _is_ a helicopter. It’s one of the possible rotor configurations for one. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/89 "2015-02-04T14:46:26Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > It’s dual jurisdiction. … Except that the Feds don’t seem to give a crap. Your own cites prove that. You are, clearly, talking out your ass with all this bushwah about federal charges for trashing a toy helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/90 "2015-02-04T14:52:20Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Except that the Feds don’t seem to give a crap. Your own cites prove that. You are, clearly, talking out your ass with all this bushwah about federal charges for trashing a toy helicopter. The state charges are also felony charges carrying the risk of imprisonment. There’s absolutely no difference in the risk to someone’s freedom, right to vote or own guns, or get a job between federal and state charges. Some of the larger package delivery drones in development are tens of thousands of dollars each and _will_ have FAA licensing. Taking a hacksaw to a piece of machined metal is even less of a crime than shooting a toy out of the airspace. Again, it’s a [bad idea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge) to step to the Feds. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/91 "2015-02-04T14:54:42Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > Yeah, I don’t think that code covers it, but it looks like the NTSB has ruled that drones are aircraft: > > [http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2014/12/01/grounded-ntsb-rules-unmanned-drone-an-aircraft-sub](http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2014/12/01/grounded-ntsb-rules-unmanned-drone-an-aircraft-sub) The interesting thing about that is the point of calling them aircraft is to restrict their use and punish the operators. The purpose does not seem to be to give these things the protections or privileges of piloted aircraft. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Speaking of fighting the hypothetical, do you see a difference between a military drone the size of a small fighter jet firing Hellfire missiles and an electrical quad copter the size of a toaster oven taking pictures with a cell phone camera? Those were actual drones. If there’s a problem it’s with the term being suddenly used for these tiny rc toys. The term has been used fast an loose. And who knows what these things are being used for. They could carry an explosive, or be used to deliver illegal drugs or something more reprehensible like something from Amazon Prime that you didn’t even order. But as far as I’m concerned if people want to get a bunch of Air Hogs, call them drones and use them for target practice that’s their business. > [@Habeed](#): > > There’s also [this](http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Flying-Camera-From-Animal-Rights-Group-Shot-Down-at-Pigeon-Shoot-Cops-179983451.html)one. Don’t know if the cops arrested anyone - but they didn’t blow the crime off. It’s destruction of $4k worth of property, and it’s blatantly illegal. Property owners do not have the right to the airspace over their property, and have not for [decades](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights). The FAA owns it. That one is giggle worthy. I wonder what’s next on this groups agenda. Maybe they’ll go into the woods during deer hunting dressed in fur coats and antlers. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/92 "2015-02-04T15:00:08Z")
You’re just not focused, are you\*\* Habeed\*\* ? I’ll try getting through to you one more time. 1. I am talking only about your claim that destruction of a drone is, in and of itself, a federal crime. 2. Local charges having to do with misuse of a firearm have nothing to do with that your claim. I could bring one of the little bastards down with a power washer. To help you stay on point, let’s just assume I do that. I don’t know why you are so personally invested in these toys, but you are. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/93 "2015-02-04T15:10:25Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > A quadcopter _is_ a helicopter. It’s one of the possible rotor configurations for one. Configuration doesn’t matter; the FAA recognizes [only three types of UAS](https://www.faa.gov/uas/): Civil, Public and Model Aircraft. The operation of them isn’t controlled by the cofiguration - whether it’s fixed wing or rotary wing - it is controlled by rules governing UAS. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/94 "2015-02-04T15:33:24Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > The interesting thing about that is the point of calling them aircraft is to restrict their use and punish the operators. > The purpose does not seem to be to give these things the protections or privileges of piloted aircraft. Yes, that does seem to be exactly the point of calling them aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/95 "2015-02-04T17:38:38Z")
Wow. I’m surprised about how this discussion on my question about gunnery has morphed. So, let’s step back a bit on a different track and consider this question: What FAA regulations affect my operation of a RC model P-51 Mustang with an 18" wingspan? Because, in my innocent mind, I would think these same regulations would apply to the RC quad-copter type flying models I mentioned in my OP. And to dismiss one point brought up in this discussion, yes, in some jurisdictions, someone can be charged with Illegal Discharge of a Firearm within City Limits. But that’s hardly a federal charge, it’s municipal. And yes, there have been many reported instances of people being injured by spent bullets from people firing their AK-47s and the like into the air to celebrate something or make some sort of statement. I don’t think there are similar instances of injuries from spent and falling bird shot pellets. Something about mass and velocity. ---
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/96 "2015-02-04T17:45:37Z")
For the most part, FAA Circular 91-57 covers your RC aircraft: [https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory\_Circular/91-57.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/91-57.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/97 "2015-02-04T17:45:48Z")
I might have missed it, but where did we conclude that quadcopters are unmanned drones or UAV helicopters? Quadcopters are operated by a human in line of sight and should fall under model aircraft rules. Those rules are basically “keep it under 500 feet and leave real planes alone.” The FAA is no more interested in quadcopters than they would be if you destroyed someone’s model airplane or helicopter. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/98 "2015-02-04T17:52:31Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > I might have missed it, but where did we conclude that quadcopters are unmanned drones or UAV helicopters? Quadcopters are operated by a human in line of sight and should fall under model aircraft rules. Those rules are basically “keep it under 500 feet and leave real planes alone.” The FAA is no more interested in quadcopters than they would be if you destroyed someone’s model airplane or helicopter. The issue is that by the time they get around to releasing any concrete decision binding the use of these vehicles, all the ones being used for professional purposes (photography, surveillance, crop dusting) will be piloted via POV camera, i.e., from a cell phone or tablet, and not by line-of-sight. That makes them an entirely different kind of thing in the eyes of the FAA. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/99 "2015-02-04T18:46:10Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > For those who are getting all verklempt at just the thought of me downing one of these pervocopters, what justification are you imagining for somebody to be flying one in my yard at a height that permits the owner to be peeping through windows? “Pervocopter”? Seriously? You think one of your neighbors is going to wait until you get busy and then fly a noisy quadcopter outside your window? That’s actually hilariously egotistical. If a quadcopter flies through your precious yard, it’s likely because the guy next door just bought it and can’t fly the damn thing. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493/100 "2015-02-04T18:50:17Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > “Pervocopter”? Seriously? You think one of your neighbors is going to wait until you get busy and then fly a noisy quadcopter outside your window? That’s actually hilariously egotistical. If a quadcopter flies through your precious yard, it’s likely because the guy next door just bought it and can’t fly the damn thing. Says the man who, obviously, hasn’t read the thread. Seriously, you should try reading before posting. Already addressed this upthread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-those-rc-quad-copter-drones/711493.md?page=6)