# About voter ID laws......... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029 "2014-06-30T19:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/41 "2014-07-01T17:55:33Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Certain parties have, of course, screeched and howled about voter ID laws being a racist plot to prevent Blacks or some other group from voting, but this is nonsense. Exactly. ID laws are no different than poll taxes or literacy tests. They’re just a procedural issue with no racial overtones. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/42 "2014-07-01T18:00:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In all my time living abroad in foreign countries, I have never once heard anyone claim that voter ID requirements disenfranchised the poor. Is this a purely American way of thinking? It is a purely leftist way of thinking in America, and the left cherry-picks when to apply such logic. For example, the proponents of cigarette taxes are by and large nanny-state liberals. Yet, by the reasoning of their opposition to voter ID laws, these taxes represent an attack on the poor, as the poor represent the majority of those who regularly smoke. The modern left sees itself as the “guardian” of the poor. They need to legislate away unhealthy behavior (tobacco, large sodas) because the poor are too stupid to quit doing these things on their own. And similarly, they need to protect the poor from requiring an ID to vote because the poor are too lazy do what everyone else has to do to function in our society. The shame is that such belittling pandering often works. _There there, child, the Democrats can take care of you._ ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/43 "2014-07-01T22:57:46Z")
A bit of a hijack but… To sign up for a health insurance plan through the marketplace on [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov), you may need to submit up to 2 (TWO!!!) forms of identification to prove your citizenship. Does that make the ACA 2x more racist than voter ID laws? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/44 "2014-07-01T23:18:57Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > I’m not trying to solve a problem. I’m trying to see if the idea of Voter IDs is not palatable because of ideology or practicality. Amending a voter ID initiative to take into account the hardships would abridge the practicality of the issue. But that won’t happen, since the only purpose of such laws is to disenfranchise people. The Republicans will not support a law that doesn’t disenfranchise people. > [@Farin](#): > > The same thing happened with the ACA, with the Rs bringing up “poor, helpless people” (fear the intrusion into your lives) who were hurt by the law and the Ds fear mongering for the spectre of catastrophic health issues (fear dieing horribly in the streets) happening to anyone/everyone. > > In both cases, there are truths to each side’s points, but they’ve been exaggerated for their causes. Garbage. There’s no truth to the Republican side in either debate. > [@Stringbean](#): > > And similarly, they need to protect the poor from requiring an ID to vote because the poor are too lazy do what everyone else has to do to function in our society. And what do you suggest the poor\* do instead of fighting such laws; take hostages? \*and non whites, especially blacks, since this is about the Republicans’ racism too This isn’t about anyone being “lazy”, this is about the bigotry and class hatred of the Republicans, and how they’ve alienated the poor and non-whites, and how they want to suppress the vote of the people they’ve spent so long persecuting. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/45 "2014-07-02T01:31:07Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > A bit of a hijack but… > > To sign up for a health insurance plan through the marketplace on [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov), you may need to submit up to 2 (TWO!!!) forms of identification to prove your citizenship. > > Does that make the ACA 2x more racist than voter ID laws? I’ve seen no evidence to support that. Most people don’t have to submit ANY form of identification, because their identity is verified through Experian. For those who do need to submit paperwork, the list is longer and more inclusive than what the elections offices will accept; an employer-issued or school-issued ID, e.g., is on the [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) list. Moreover, the people most apt to lack ID (the elderly and the poor) probably aren’t going to be on [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) anyway, as neither Medicaid nor Medicare requires enrollment through that website. I have not seen any evidence that minority customers are disproportionately burdened by the requirements at [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov), for the reasons above stated. If such evidence does appear, then I may change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/46 "2014-07-02T16:27:45Z")
Most people in the rest of the world, if asked if voters should be required to produce ID to vote, would probably look bewildered and slack-jawed…“Uh yes, duh, of course. Common sense.” Areas where the USA lags behind much of the developed world: 1. Universal health care 2. Eco-friendly recycling 3. Academic K-12 math and science proficiency 4. Requiring voter ID ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/47 "2014-07-02T16:42:45Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > They need to legislate away unhealthy behavior (tobacco, large sodas) Nice strawman. Tobacco hasn’t been legislated away. Use is now more restricted, but that’s a case of the right of some people to smoke anywhere they want and the rights of other people to avoid second hand smoke. Balancing people’s rights when they come in conflict is one of the functions of an effective government. As for “large sodas”, that was one man’s work in New York and pretty much nowhere else. And calling Bloomberg “liberal” is hilarious. He might be socially progressive but he’s economically conservative. Even his own stated rationale wasn’t to protect people but to save money on health care. > [@Velocity](#): > > Most people in the rest of the world, if asked if voters should be required to produce ID to vote, I don’t disagree, but you keep dancing around one of the fundamental points: before you require an ID, it is reasonable to first have a universal federal ID (we don’t) and then to make it easily and freely available to all citizens. Harp on Voter ID all you want, but unless you are more vocally calling for a universal ID that is freely and easily available, it’s a bit hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/48 "2014-07-02T16:43:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Areas where the USA lags behind much of the developed world: > > 1. Universal health care > 2. Eco-friendly recycling > 3. Academic K-12 math and science proficiency > 4. Requiring voter ID What is the value proposition for Voter ID? What am I, the citizen, getting as a result of Voter ID? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/49 "2014-07-02T16:49:53Z")
So this thread is essentially about America-bashing? Good to get that cleared up then. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/50 "2014-07-02T17:04:20Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What is the value proposition for Voter ID? What am I, the citizen, getting as a result of Voter ID? A greater degree of confidence in the correct outcome of an ultra-close election. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/51 "2014-07-02T17:08:28Z")
We know that in-person fraud is marginal, and the number of voters disenfranchised by VID is significant. So why would any reasonable person conclude that the outcome of an election is more likely to be correct? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/52 "2014-07-02T17:23:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A greater degree of confidence in the correct outcome of an ultra-close election. How much more likely is it that we going to have the correct outcome? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/53 "2014-07-02T17:29:30Z")
Depends what you mean by “correct”, don’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/54 "2014-07-02T17:34:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We know that in-person fraud is marginal, and the number of voters disenfranchised by VID is significant. So why would any reasonable person conclude that the outcome of an election is **more likely to be correct?** Correct = votes correctly cast and counted. If a voter doesn’t participate, that doesn’t affect the correctness of an election. That’s voluntarily abstaining. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/55 "2014-07-02T17:44:49Z")
You \*may \*have noticed some discussion going on about what is “voluntary” about it. Or you may not have. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/56 "2014-07-02T17:46:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Correct = votes correctly cast and counted. Awesome definition. And how many more of these are we going to have thanks to Voter ID? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/57 "2014-07-02T17:51:48Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Awesome definition. And how many more of these are we going to have thanks to Voter ID? There are countries with voter ID requirements and 80% voter turnout. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/58 "2014-07-02T17:55:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There are countries with voter ID requirements and 80% voter turnout. You misspelled states, it’s not c-o-u-n-t-r-i-e-s, it’s s-t-a-t-e-s. Which of the states with Voter ID has 80% turnout? Also, which of the states that recently implemented Voter ID have claimed it would increase turnout to these levels? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/59 "2014-07-02T17:58:12Z")
If it were conservative voters that would be negatively impacted by voter ID laws, I have no doubt that liberals would suddenly be clamoring in favor of such laws. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029/60 "2014-07-02T17:59:26Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You misspelled states, it’s not c-o-u-n-t-r-i-e-s, it’s s-t-a-t-e-s. Countries are countries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/about-voter-id-laws/692029.md?page=4)