# Abraham Lincoln. Who did he think he was? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2001, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709 "2001-10-26T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![philsGT500](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e56c9b/32.png) [@philsGT500](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/philsGT500)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/21 "2001-10-26T05:48:31Z")
I see I’ve started a monster. An entertaining monster, I’ll admit, but a monster nonetheless. I will refrain from addressing my O.P. as I’m sure it will only result in more egg (egg I’m sure that will be used in the baking of a cake) on my face. Thanks for trying Tracer, but I’m gathering it’s a lost cause. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/22 "2001-10-26T05:52:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*_sigh_ … I hate to do this, but I think I’m going to actually try and address the OP. > One of the things Abe Lincoln is notorious for is the fact that, at the onset of the Civil War, he suspended Habeas Corpus. (This was primarily due to anti-Unionists in Maryland who were blocking and harassing Federal troops on their march to assemble in Washington, D.C…) Roger B. Taney, chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, issued a ruling that President Lincoln did not have the authority to suspend habeas corpus. Lincoln ignored Taney, and apparently even tried to have Taney arrested. > > Were Lincoln’s actions justified? Was he really the tyrant emperor the South liked (and still likes) to paint him as? > \*\* I think that his actions were justified in that case. The Constitution allows Habeus Corpus to be suspended in times of national emergency. The debatable question is, “Who has the power to suspend it; Congress or the President” I think Lincoln’s thoughts at the time were, “Well, the capital is surrounded by the traitors, and the troops that are supposed to come down to protect Washington are being blocked in Maryland. Meanwhile, traitors are formally meeting in Maryland, and probably plan to declare secession. Congress isn’t in town, so they can’t suspend habeus corpus. Aw, fuck it. I’m going to arrest them. I’ll deal with the consequences, because I’m not going to have the capital isolated. They want to impeach me or something, let them.” You could say that Lincoln wanted to have his cake and eat it too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/23 "2001-10-26T05:55:40Z")
**philsGT500** , maybe when you have more time, you can tell us reasons you dislike Lincoln. That way, there will be specific points to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/24 "2001-10-26T06:08:45Z")
My favorite president’s name is **Millard Fillmore**. I love that name, and I don’t know why. BTW, has anyone seen the new Ben & Jerry’s **TWISTED** ice cream. They take two different ice cream flavors and mix them together! It’s scrum-diddly-dumptious!! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/25 "2001-10-26T06:10:21Z")
Just to throw a fact or two into the breach: > [@](#): > > The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. – Article I, Section 9, 2nd paragraph, [The Constitution of the United States](http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/constitution.html) So, pretty clear justification for suspension by _someone_ (“when in Cases of Rebellion…the public Safety may require it”). I will note that the paragraph in question is contained in the article dealing with the powers of Congress (and more specifically, with a section dealing with stuff Congress _can’t_ do, like suspend habeas corpus, unless there’s a really overriding need to do so). So, Lincoln appears to have overstepped his bounds there. Whether or not this makes him a cruel tyrant, maddened by power-lust, his hands covered with the blood of innocents, worse than Caligula, worse than Attila the Hun, worse than Genghis Khan, worse than Nixon, etc., etc., etc., is more debatable. > [@](#): > > Don’t have the time to actually post reasons for not liking him so I figured I’d put this up here and see if anything interesting develops while I’m away. Let this be a lesson to you, philsGT500. ---
**Author:** ![DPWhite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@DPWhite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPWhite)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/26 "2001-10-26T06:30:10Z")
Lincoln used the suspension of the writ also for newspaper editors he disagreed with. But I hardly think that his suspension of the writ, which IIRC Congress did not try to override or object to, is the extent of the case for Lincoln being a “least favorite” President, that doesn’t keep this thread from being a troll in any way. It’s peanuts. MMMMMMmmmmm peanut butter cake. Nor does this make him a tyrant. A tyrant is someone who exercizes a power that no one has. Technically he usurped a power that Congress had. That makes him a usurper in this instance. If people want to go ahead and feed the troll, well alright. But a better response would be a thread about Lincoln, the good, the bad and the ugly (poor guy). ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/27 "2001-10-26T10:09:48Z")
Personally, I prefer custard with my cake, rather than ice cream ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/28 "2001-10-26T13:11:59Z")
Lincoln also appropriated private property without giving the owners just compensation. I think thats sometimes used as a strike against him. Me though, I thought freeing the slaves was a fine idea. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/29 "2001-10-26T13:27:20Z")
I don’t think the _idea_ was his 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/30 "2001-10-26T13:32:50Z")
But as everyone knows Lincoln as a boy had to eat his cake by the light of a single candle. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/31 "2001-10-26T13:53:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MikeG \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > > > \*\*Didn’t he eat his cake from a coal shovel or something? \*\* > > > > No, you’re thinking of him splitting his cake in two with an axe. \*\* > > Yes, but did he not confess to chopping down his cake? \*\* Yes, but he thought that he could get away with it - “The world will little note nor long remember…” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/32 "2001-10-26T13:56:23Z")
I thought he ate his cake _with_ his coal shovel… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/33 "2001-10-26T13:59:46Z")
I heard that, when Lincoln was a boy, he had to walk twenty miles through the snow to the bakery, to get his cake. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/34 "2001-10-26T14:41:58Z")
and it was uphill both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/35 "2001-10-26T14:47:53Z")
Probably had to cook it himself when he got there too… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/36 "2001-10-26T14:48:45Z")
One of the more controversial episodes in the Lincoln-Douglas debates was the ice-cream-_versus_-cake exchange. Someone refresh my memory on another point, though. Was Kansas admitted to the Union as a free ice cream state? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/37 "2001-10-26T14:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\* > Someone refresh my memory on another point, though. Was Kansas admitted to the Union as a free ice cream state? \*\* Yes, even though Senator Douglas’s plan was that the people vote on whether to have ice cream or not. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/38 "2001-10-26T15:07:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I will refrain from addressing my O.P. as I’m sure it will only result in more egg (egg I’m sure that will be used in the baking of a cake) on my face. Looky here, Sparky. If you want a debate, don’t rely on other people to read your mind. I’d say shit or get off the pot, but clearly you’ve already decided upon the latter. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/39 "2001-10-26T19:33:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*Just to throw a fact or two into the breach: > > > [@](#): > > > > The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. – Article I, Section 9, 2nd paragraph, [The Constitution of the United States](http://www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/constitution.html) > > \*\* Fine, but what does that have to do with cake? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2001, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/40 "2001-10-26T20:05:32Z")
Pennies are annoying. Hot apple pie and cold vanilla ice cream. Mmmmm… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709.md?page=3)