# Abraham Lincoln. Who did he think he was? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2001, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709 "2001-10-26T03:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2001, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/101 "2001-11-01T23:07:55Z")
Izzardesque wrote: > [@](#): > > All baseball players look funny if you ask me! Bunch of cissies playing rounders. Speaking of which, I’ve never seen a game of rounders, and I don’t know what one looks or feels like. I understand that baseball is descended from rounders (although it was an American variant of rounders called “townball” that was baseball’s most direct ancestor). What’s rounders like? And one of these days, I’m going to force myself to watch this “cricket” game you brits are so big on. That is, if they ever show one on ESPN. > [@](#): > > Bet they like angel cake, the big wussies! 🙂 Mmmmmm … angel-food cake… ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/102 "2001-11-02T11:57:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > What’s rounders like? Its very much like baseball, except the bat is smaller and the ball larger. The main reason I call 'em cissies is that rounders is traditionally very much a girls game in the UK, especially at school. > [@](#): > > And one of these days, I’m going to force myself to watch this “cricket” game you brits are so big on. That is, if they ever show one on ESPN. Don’t. It may just be possible that it is more boring to watch than your baseball (but as I think being more boring may break some rule of science, I am not sure if this is possible!!) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2001, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/103 "2001-11-02T18:42:29Z")
Sorry, **Izzardesque** , but any game that takes an entire day to play the _short_ version is boring almost by definition. For comparison, FYI, field hockey is strictly a schoolgirls’ game in the US. I understand some of you Empire types might have an issue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/104 "2001-11-03T14:46:50Z")
Not the way I used to play it - practically Ice Hockey with no pads or rules (or ice for that matter). In other words, war with sticks!! But then I was supposed to be playing rugby andd was only doing for a laugh 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/105 "2001-11-03T17:09:52Z")
I thought Lincoln chopped down a cherry tree to make a cake, and then lied about it… But maybe i’m thinking of someone else. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/106 "2001-11-03T19:20:35Z")
Izzardesque wrote: > [@](#): > > [Rounders is] very much like baseball, except the bat is smaller and the ball larger. The main reason I call 'em cissies is that rounders is traditionally very much a girls game in the UK, especially at school. We have something like that here in the U.S., too. We call it “softball.” It’s just like baseball, except:[ul][li]The bases are 60 feet apart instead of 90 feet apart[/li][li]All pitches have to be thrown underhanded[/li][li]The ball is 11, 12, or 16 inches in circumference, rather than 9 inches[/li][li]You have to stay on base 'til the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand, so base stealing is next-to-impossible[/li]It’s played by sissies. ;)[/ul]Despite the fact that it’s called “soft”-ball, the ball used is actually every bit as hard as a baseball. It just spreads the impact out over a wider area 'cause it’s bigger around. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/107 "2001-11-03T20:32:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by philsGT500 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Looky here, Sparky. If you want a debate, don’t rely on other people to read your mind. I’d say shit or get off the pot, but clearly you’ve already decided upon the latter. > > I was hardly relying on people to read my mind. As I stated, I just didn’t have the immediate time to actually post my points. I will tell you that I’ve been reading the various comments and I have no regrets about starting this thread. It’s amazing how many instances people can find to relate ole Abe to cake. Forgive me for assuming that starting a thread in “great debates” would spark an actual debate. > > Oh, and for whoever said that Lincoln’s idea to free the slaves was a good one, let me say that it wasn’t his idea nor did he desire for slaves to be freed. > > There, all you cake supporters are now in an excellent position to sabotage my thoughts. Enjoy yourselves. \*\* You’ve had a week now to lay out a cogent argument in a new GD thread as to why Lincoln was such a presumptious, over-rated son of a gun and yet I see… nothing in GD. Have you gathered up your marbles and gone home or are you still about? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/108 "2001-11-03T21:22:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Green Bean wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > did you know that the classic recipe for pound cake is equal parts (by weight) of eggs, butter, sugar, and flour? > > Really? That’s it? No yeast? No vanilla extract? No other ingredients other than eggs, butter, sugar, and flour? > > Can I substitute lowfat margarine for the butter, eggwhites for the eggs, aspartame for the sugar, and whole wheat flour? No reason why my pound cake shouldn’t be **healthy** as well. \*\* No. No you can’t. And why is that? Because sugar is a critical ingredient in making a cake. A cake without sugar won’t have the same structure, and it will be bone-dry. Also, heating nutrasweet destroys its sweetening power. And lowfat margarine is simply margarine emulsified with water. You’d do better to simply lower the amount of butter and add water. Besides, the fats in butter are better for you than the ones in margarine. The egg whites are a valid substitution though, since it is the egg whites that add air to the cake batter. Adding or removing the egg yolks is what makes the difference between yellow cake and white cake. Whole wheat flour is a possible substitution, but be warned that the cake will be denser and more strongly flavored, and the cake will have less strength. You’d really be better off starting with a completely different recipe. There are low-fat, low sugar cakes out there, but they require different techniques. If we used your recipe we’d have end up with a sort of unleavened unsweetened whole-wheat rock-hard brick. Don’t these kids read _Joy of Cooking_ anymore? By the way, my understanding was that the classic pound cake recipe was for a POUND of each of the four classic ingredients. Although some vanilla would be good… ---
**Author:** ![JubilationTCornpone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee59a6/32.png) [@JubilationTCornpone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JubilationTCornpone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/109 "2001-11-03T23:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by philsGT500 \* > > \*\* > > There, all you cake supporters are now in an excellent position to sabotage my thoughts. Enjoy yourselves. \*\* > > You’ve had a week now to lay out a cogent argument in a new GD thread as to why Lincoln was such a presumptious, over-rated son of a gun and yet I see… nothing in GD. Have you gathered up your marbles and gone home or are you still about? \*\* Perhaps. Wouldn’t that just take the cake? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/110 "2001-11-06T16:22:14Z")
Lemur866 wrote: > [@](#): > > Besides, the fats in butter are better for you than the ones in margarine. I disagree! (Hah, I knew I could turn this back into a debate again!) The fats in butter are primarily saturated fats. Saturated fats are pretty bad for you in terms of raising LDL cholesterol and causing cardiovascular problems. The fats in margarine that are receiving so much flak in the media of late are “_trans_ fats”. (And, yes, IUPAC rules require the term _trans_ to be italicized.) These are fats composed of one or more _trans_ fatty acids. _Trans_ fatty acids are unsaturated fatty acids in which the double-bond is a _trans_ (hydrogens are “across” from each other) double-bond instead of the more common _cis_ (hydrogens are “next to” each other) double-bond. There is currently strong evidence that _trans_ fats are nutritionally equivalent to saturated fats. Therefore, they are probably about **as** bad for you as saturated fats. There is **not** strong evidence, however, that _trans_ fats are any **worse** for you than saturated fats. There’s a lot of **speculation** , to be sure, but hardly any hard evidence. The “nurses study” of 80,000 nurses did show a positive correlation between _trans_ fat intake and cardiovascular disease, but there were so many other variables in that study that it’s really hard to jump to any kind of conclusion about it. ---
**Author:** ![Izzardesque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a9adbd/32.png) [@Izzardesque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzardesque)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/111 "2001-11-06T16:33:18Z")
But which did our Abe prefer on his slice of Malt Loaf? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/112 "2001-11-06T17:27:19Z")
Well, since margarine wasn’t even **invented** until the 20th century, Abe wouldn’t have had any other choice than butter. ---
**Author:** ![Victory\_Candescence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Victory\_Candescence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Victory_Candescence)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2002, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/113 "2002-03-13T03:39:29Z")
Would it even be _possible_ to hijack this thread? Anyway, [www.lincolnsoft.com](http://www.lincolnsoft.com) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2002, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/114 "2002-03-13T07:25:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DPWhite \* > \*\*Curse you Tracer! Suspension of the writ of habeas corpus is the best you can do. MMMMMmmmmmmm Chunky Monkey! \*\* I understand Chocolate-Chip Cookie Dough ice cream was used by John Adams to distract the masses while he passed the Alien and Sedition Act. ---
**Author:** ![Tretiak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Tretiak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tretiak)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/115 "2002-03-13T21:26:11Z")
I have to agree with the OP on this, I hate Lincoln as well…or is that Carrottop I don’t like? Geez, I always get thsoe two confused. Yeah, I think I hate Carrottop and kinda like Abraham Lincoln…the one who was sixteenth President, he’s the one I like, not the one from the phone commercials, so whichever is which. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/116 "2002-03-13T22:06:28Z")
Mmmmm, carrot cake. (Oh, wait a minute – carrots are vegetables, aren’t they? Drat. Don’t tell anybody I can eat carrot cake, okay? It’d tarnish my sterling reputation as a vegephobe.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2002, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/117 "2002-03-13T22:43:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slithy Tove \* > \*\*Reflecting on the Lincoln / cake nexus: > > On the exact site of the Lincoln-Douglas debate in Freeport, Illinois now stands one of the greatest ice cream parlors in the Midwest: > > Union Dairy Fountain (named in honor of Lincoln’s cause), 1252 Woodside Dr \Freeport, IL 61032 (815-233-2233) > > You can get cake there, but I recommend the Pigs Dinner - a giant ice cream sundae served in a wooden trough. \*\* Damn. I had that trough thing a few years back on a trip to Freeport. Damn good eating. Almost makes you forget the wussy high school mascot: The Freeport Pretzels. I like pretzels. Especially the ones from Pretzel Maker. With parmesan cheese. Wow, the goodness. Also good are the teriyaki wings at Buffalo Wild Bill’s. We just got one in a mall a few blocks from my house. I’m addicted I tell ya, ADDICTED! I think their secret ingredient is crack. I bought a bottle of the sauce to take home and put on my very own chicken, but dammitt! It’s nowhere near as tasty! They also have a way-cute bartender. I have an exam at 6:30 that I should be studying for. I’m gonna get me some wings after that exam. I really more than studying (since it’s open notes) should be writing my paper for Marketing, but that’s just no fun! I’d rather be here on the SDMB reading posts, eating wings and pretzels and finishing up the whole evening with cake and ice cream and a big giant glass of cold 2% AE milk, the very best kind of milk. Actually, in a perfect world it would be whole milk since **that** is the very best kind of milk, but I have to watch my girlish figure. ---
**Author:** ![Sweet\_Willy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sweet\_Willy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweet_Willy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/118 "2002-03-13T23:18:42Z")
So I get newbie trial by fire in a race thread recently. I read this OP and think…hmmm…don’t feel like being crucified today, think I’ll just leave it alone. What does it get me? I miss three pages of the damn cake party!!! Abe Lincoln ranks about third greaest ever on my list. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2002, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/119 "2002-03-14T10:13:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, since margarine wasn’t even invented until the 20th century, Abe wouldn’t have had any other choice than butter. Acording to an episode of James Burke’s **Connections** , margarine was invented by some Frenchman during the Napoleonic Wars. Did you know that Lincoln used a laxative with the brand name Blue Mass ? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2002, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709/120 "2002-03-15T00:27:23Z")
Hello, everyone, my name is Phil & I think Abraham Lincoln is overrated. Not that he was such a bad guy, but when you practically get deified by your countrymen, you’re overrated by definition. I can understand the opposition to slavery, at least to hereditary slavery as practiced in the American South at the time. But did he have to frame this argument in terms of preserving the Union above all? All that “house divided” nonsense. All things being equal, shouldn’t a state have the right to secede from the Union? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abraham-lincoln-who-did-he-think-he-was/89709.md?page=7)