# Abramoff may flip on his congressional cronies **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594 "2005-12-21T06:05:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cainxinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7bcc69/32.png) [@cainxinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cainxinth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/1 "2005-12-21T06:05:20Z")
[Abramoff Lawyers in Talks With DOJ](http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/20/D8EKDIAG9.html) It would be oh so sweet if he flipped on all his buddies. Jack Ambramoff might be a king sized scumbag but I’d be willing to let him go scot free if he named names. Provided of couse the first name is DeLay. What are you thoughts? Agree to let him go if he testifies? Don’t think his testimony would carry weight? Couldn’t care less? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/2 "2005-12-21T21:57:21Z")
I dunno . . . according to the Wikipedia – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack\_Abramoff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff) – Abramoff already has been indicted by three grand juries in **three** unrelated cases (plus the accusation by Tyco, Inc., that Abramoff accepted $1.7 million to do “grass roots” political organizing against legislation penalizing U.S. corporations registered abroad for tax reasons, and then never did the work – no indictment from that one, yet). Is it possible he could work out a single deal to cover all of them? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/3 "2005-12-21T23:41:10Z")
> [@cainxinth](#): > > [Abramoff Lawyers in Talks With DOJ](http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/20/D8EKDIAG9.html) > > It would be oh so sweet if he flipped on all his buddies. Jack Ambramoff might be a king sized scumbag but I’d be willing to let him go scot free if he named names. Provided of couse the first name is DeLay. > > What are you thoughts? Agree to let him go if he testifies? Don’t think his testimony would carry weight? Couldn’t care less? Jack can jack off on the twins faces if he will flip–this will be the big enchilada, the pinata grande, the comeuppance of which there can be no upper coming (huh?) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/4 "2005-12-21T23:43:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno . . . according to the Wikipedia – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack\_Abramoff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff) – Abramoff already has been indicted by three grand juries in **three** unrelated cases (plus the accusation by Tyco, Inc., that Abramoff accepted $1.7 million to do “grass roots” political organizing against legislation penalizing U.S. corporations registered abroad for tax reasons, and then never did the work – no indictment from that one, yet). Is it possible he could work out a single deal to cover all of them? Let’s not leave out the murder– But while Jack may be low in cash, he is loaded with inventory, (as we count the names of Congressional Repugs) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/5 "2005-12-21T23:45:01Z")
It will be sweet if it happens, but don’t hold your breath. He’ll cut a deal that still give DeLay wiggle room, and the little worm will slip free. It’s going to take garlic and a stake to put an end to DeLay. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/6 "2005-12-22T00:06:08Z")
wives of several lobbyists and lawmakers may have had in any influence scheme, a piece of the puzzle that investigators have begun referring to privately as the “wives’ club.” They better pray that none of them become ex-wives in the meantime… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/7 "2005-12-22T00:11:53Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It will be sweet if it happens, but don’t hold your breath. He’ll cut a deal that still give DeLay wiggle room, and the little worm will slip free. It’s going to take garlic and a stake to put an end to DeLay. why would abramamoff hesitate to play his bigest card? What can the bugman do for him now? ---
**Author:** ![lalaith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@lalaith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalaith)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/8 "2005-12-22T00:12:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > It will be sweet if it happens, but don’t hold your breath. He’ll cut a deal that still give DeLay wiggle room, and the little worm will slip free. It’s going to take garlic and a stake to put an end to DeLay. No, the sad fact is that all it takes are the piddling few people in his district. If nothing else, let’s hope they wake up and not return him to Congress. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/9 "2005-12-22T00:16:50Z")
> [@lalaith](#): > > No, the sad fact is that all it takes are the piddling few people in his district. If nothing else, let’s hope they wake up and not return him to Congress. his re-elect poll numbers suck, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/10 "2005-12-22T14:24:35Z")
I hope Abramoff flips and that anyone who has dirty hands pays the price for it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/11 "2005-12-22T15:02:07Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > his re-elect poll numbers suck, as I recall. [CNN/Gallup](http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/12/tx-22_constitue.php) > [@](#): > > 803 Adults (713 Registered Voters). December 1-4, 2005. MoE +/- 4% > > If Tom DeLay runs for re-election in 2006, in general, are you more likely to vote for the Republican candidate Tom DeLay or for the Democratic Party’s candidate for Congress? > > Tom DeLay: 36% > The Democrat: 49% > > Voters’ Opinion of Tom DeLay: > > Favorable: 37% > Unfavorable: 52% > Unfamiliar: 11% > > Based on what you have heard or read, do you think the charges against DeLay are definitely true, probably true, probably not true, or definitely not true? > > Definitely True: 15% > Probably True: 40% > Probably False: 26% > Definitely False: 8% > > Nick Lampson is the likely challenger to Tom DeLay in TX-22. Too early to go piss on his grave yet, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/12 "2005-12-22T15:31:27Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > But while Jack may be low in cash, he is loaded with inventory, (as we count the names of Congressional Repugs) Please don’t forget that Abramoff gave lots of money to Democrats as well. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/13 "2005-12-22T15:38:51Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Please don’t forget that Abramoff gave lots of money to Democrats as well. That’s fine; the more crooked politicians that go to jail, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/14 "2005-12-22T15:48:44Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > That’s fine; the more crooked politicians that go to jail, the better. How can you say that? Isn’t the new Law Of The Jungle “Party before country in all cases”? I wonder, over the course of the SDMB, the per-minute utterances of “But Clinton…” or its equivalent. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/15 "2005-12-22T15:50:30Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > his re-elect poll numbers suck, as I recall. But poll numbers from a mythical challenger tend to change when the challenger actually materializes. It’s a lot closer than you think. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/16 "2005-12-24T08:53:48Z")
Now, Mr. Moto, don’t try that tired crap. I will give you three to one odds that no democrat does time out of this, vs. years and years of entertaining republican incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/17 "2005-12-27T02:30:14Z")
I don’t know who will and who won’t see jail, if anyone. But the fact is politicians of both parties took money from Abramoff. [From here.]([http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158_pf.html)) > [@](#): > > Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations > Abramoff Issue’s Fallout May Extend Beyond the GOP > > Lobbyist Jack Abramoff and an associate famously collected $82 million in lobbying and public relations fees from six Indian tribes and devoted a lot of their time to trying to persuade Republican lawmakers to act on their clients’ behalf. > > But Abramoff didn’t work just with Republicans. He oversaw a team of two dozen lobbyists at the law firm Greenberg Traurig that included many Democrats. Moreover, the campaign contributions that Abramoff directed from the tribes went to Democratic as well as Republican legislators. > > Among the biggest beneficiaries were Capitol Hill’s most powerful Democrats, including Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.) and Harry M. Reid (Nev.), the top two Senate Democrats at the time, Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.), then-leader of the House Democrats, and the two lawmakers in charge of raising funds for their Democratic colleagues in both chambers, according to a Washington Post study. Reid succeeded Daschle as Democratic leader after Daschle lost his Senate seat last November. > > Democrats are hoping to gain political advantage from federal and Senate investigations of Abramoff’s activities and from the embattled lobbyist’s former ties to House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.). Yet, many Democratic lawmakers also benefited from Abramoff’s political operation, a fact that could hinder the Democrats’ efforts to turn the lobbyist’s troubles into a winning partisan issue. ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/18 "2005-12-27T02:51:02Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I don’t know who will and who won’t see jail, if anyone. But the fact is politicians of both parties took money from Abramoff. > > [From here.]([http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158_pf.html)) Your guys did it too! Your guys did it too! Is that all you can say? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/19 "2005-12-27T03:17:48Z")
Nope. This isn’t a defense of any Republican involved in wrongdoing. However, characterizing this as solely a Republican scandal seems premature. Of course, that won’t stop some people. Abramoff lobbied any politician that could get him what he wanted, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that that included Democrats as well. That party isn’t powerless, you know. If Republicans have to come clean about what actions they undertook in exchange for Abramoff’s money, then Harry Reid, Tom Daschle, Byron Dorgan, Patrick Kennedy and Patty Murray ought to do the same. If their actions are above board, very good. If not, they ought to face some sanction. The same standard ought to apply right across the board. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594/20 "2005-12-27T03:18:34Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > [From here.]([http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158_pf.html)) You do realize that the paper you cited is notorious for giving a rightwing slant to the news don’t you? On scandal and politics, you may as well quote [America’s](http://washingtontimes.com/national/20051213-111244-2879r.htm)[Newspaper.](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050813-115229-5449r.htm) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/abramoff-may-flip-on-his-congressional-cronies/336594.md?page=2)