# Absentee Voting in New York **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 12, 1999, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767 "1999-11-12T19:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 1999, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/1 "1999-11-13T06:58:00Z")
I was just reading an article about Hillary’s visit to Israel, and how it was being watched in New York. At one point in the article, it mentions former New Yorkers living in Israel. It reported one who left New York 21 years ago to move to Israel, but who still votes absentee in New York. Huh?! How can this be happening? Is it legal? It sure sounds ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/2 "1999-11-12T19:04:00Z")
A lot of New Yorkers keep residences in Manhattan when they leave because of the real estate issues there. It’s possible that a person would keep a residence there and, as such, could still vote even if they live elsewhere. * * * Yer pal, Satan ---
**Author:** ![funneefarmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@funneefarmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/funneefarmer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/3 "1999-11-12T19:43:00Z")
I think the major reason she went is to court the Jewish vote and maybe if she can pull it off, the Arab-American vote. I’m sure she didn’t go all the way over there for an absentee ballot or two. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/4 "1999-11-12T20:16:00Z")
> [@](#): > > . It reported one who left New York 21 years ago to move to Israel, but who still votes absentee in New York. > > How can this be happening? Is it legal? It sure sounds ridiculous. What sounds ridiculous or illegal about that? I don’t see why you can’t live abroad but maintain a residence in the United States. And any resident of a state can vote with an absentee ballot. * * * La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit. H. de Livry ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/5 "1999-11-12T20:34:00Z")
It’s ridiculous and possibly illegal because according to the [New"][http://www.elections.state.ny.us](http://www.elections.state.ny.us)]New]( [url="[http://www.elections.state.ny.us](http://www.elections.state.ny.us)) York State Board of Elections , if you want to vote in a New York Election you must (among other things) have been “living” at your present address for at least 30 days prior to an election. There are some exceptions, but living in another country is not one of them. ## It seems to me that simply keeping a post office box (or even an apartment lease) is not “living” in NY. Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/6 "1999-11-12T20:35:00Z")
It’s ridiculous and possibly illegal because according to the [New York State Board of Elections](http://www.elections.state.ny.us) , if you want to vote in a New York Election you must (among other things) have been “living” at your present address for at least 30 days prior to an election. There are some exceptions, but living in another country is not one of them. ## It seems to me that simply keeping a post office box (or even an apartment lease) is not “living” in NY. Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/7 "1999-11-12T21:02:00Z")
Thanks, manhattan, that was the info I was looking for – it apparently _is_ illegal (and I also think it’s ridiculous). And this guy gave his name to the reporter. I hope somebody at the board of elections takes note. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/8 "1999-11-12T22:14:00Z")
I don’t think it is as simple as all that. American citizens living overseas don’t lose the right to vote, do they? I think not. My parents live 7 or 8 months of the year in Switzerland, then come to California for the rest of the time. They get mail at my house. When my dad’s here, he votes. Is that illegal? Another example: I have swiss citizenship. I can vote by absentee ballot in Switzerland. Still another example: when George Bush was president, I remember hearing that his legal residence was in Texas. (actually what I heard was that it was a hotel room in Texas, chosen because Texas has no state income tax, but I digress.) How much time did he actually spend in Texas? * * * La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit. H. de Livry ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/9 "1999-11-12T22:19:00Z")
Sorry about the double post. But I forgot another point I wanted to make. **manhattan** quoted the New York State Board of Elections > [@](#): > > if you want to vote in a New York Election you must (among other things) have been “living” at your present address for at least 30 days prior to an election. What is the legal definition of “living” in that sentence? Suppose I am in vacation in Europe for 9 months, and change my address to get mail there. I come back two weeks before the election. Are you saying I can’t vote? I would imagine that what they mean by “living” is having a residence in New York, which means filling out the appropriate (local, state, federal) tax forms and having a mailing address. Not your physical presence. * * * La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit. H. de Livry ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/10 "1999-11-12T22:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I hope somebody at the board of elections takes note. I can’t speak for New York, but voter fraud is a very low priority in Los Angeles County. My ex (a Canadian working in California with a green card) used to vote in elections all the time, including the 1992 Presidential election; she was allowed to register by simply swearing she was a citizen. Anyway, during the divorce she pulled some really underhanded crap, so I dropped a dime on her to the voter fraud division of the California Secretary of State, which had been running public service announcements with an 800 number as a part of a crackdown on voter fraud. A special agent was assigned, and he put together a detailed case that included a lot of information about her that even I didn’t know. This case was then forwarded to the Los Angeles District Attorney for prosecution. It died there of neglect. Despite many phone calls to the prosecutor in charge from both myself and the special agent, they declined to prosecute. Coincidentally, at the same time, the Wall Street journal published and article on voter fraud, and they quoted statistics that said the Los Angeles District Attorney had _never_ prosecuted a voter fraud case. So next time you proudly excercise your right to vote, do it with the knowledge that your vote has been negate by a non-citizen. * * * TT “Believe those who seek the truth. Doubt those who find it.” --Andre Gide ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/11 "1999-11-12T23:20:00Z")
All right. I want you guys to know just how much I love you. I downloaded about 1.4MB of gobbledygook and read an undue portion of it just to give you the answers you so richly deserve. From the Election Law of the State of New York: > [@](#): > > The term “residence” shall be deemed to mean that place where a person maintains a fixed, permanent and principal home and to which he, wherever temporarily located, always intends to return. So going on a trip, even a 9-month one, does not necessarily mean surrendering residency. I’d wager that living abroad for 21 years is. **Arnold** , your parents are in a close call. I’d check with the California election folks. Additionally, there are separate rules for voting for President and Vice President. I won’t quote them here, but basically, all American citizens get to vote in that election. NY has a provision that if you last lived in the State before moving overseas, you get to vote from NY. There are also special rules for the military and some others. To wit: > [@](#): > > § 5-104. Qualifications of voters; residence, gaining or losing. > > 1. For the purposes of registering and voting no person shall be deemed to have gained or lost a residence by reason of his presence or absence while employed in the service of the United States, nor while engaged in the navigation of the waters of this state, or of the United States, or of the high seas; nor while a student of any institution of learning; nor while kept at any welfare institution, asylum or other institution wholly or partly supported at public expense or by charity; nor while confined in any public prison. So I suppose that if our Hillary-loving friend were at Yeshiva for the past 21 years, he might have a case. And **TT** , in New York the Board of Elections generally gets involved only when one candidate challenges the signatures or votes of another. Which, in a close race, they always do. In particular, the nominating petitions of minor and upstart candidates are subjected to scrutiny that you would not believe. You can bet that the Giuliani people have a videotape of this fellow in case the race comes down to absentee ballots. * * * Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 1999, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/12 "1999-11-12T23:56:00Z")
Thank you, **manhattan** , for the research. I went to several web pages but couldn’t find any explicit rules. > [@](#): > > Additionally, there are separate rules for voting for President and Vice President. I won’t quote them here, but basically, all American citizens get to vote in that election. NY has a provision that if you last lived in the State before moving overseas, you get to vote from NY. So the New Yorker voting from Israel might have been registered in New York but only for presidential elections. I think we need more information on the case cited by **David B**. For one thing, if a person was knowingly doing something illegal, why would they give their name to the reporter? And secondly, I would imagine that a person who takes the trouble to vote after 21 years overseas would be prevented by his civic conscience from breaking election laws. * * * La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit. H. de Livry ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 1999, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/13 "1999-11-14T01:05:00Z")
He might not know he was breaking the law. (If he did, he’s not very smart, or thinks nothing will happen to him even when he gave his name to a reporter.) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 1999, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/14 "1999-11-14T19:15:00Z")
But we don’t know enough about the case to know if the person mentioned in the article _was_ breaking the law. **manhattan** ’s post indicates that there are several ways in which a person living abroad can vote in New York (e.g. presidential elections.) * * * La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit. H. de Livry ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 1999, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/15 "1999-11-16T14:39:00Z")
Well, if it’s just presidential elections, then he was misrepresenting himself to the reporter, because he specifically indicated that he voted absentee and would not vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 1999, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absentee-voting-in-new-york/4767/16 "1999-11-17T06:32:00Z")
OK, that’s information we didn’t have before (the person was voting in the elections for governor of New York.) I note that from **manhattan** ’s post above that there are legal reasons for a person to vote in New York elections when living abroad. I’m not sure that those reasons apply to the case you’re citing, and I don’t intend on turning this into a “great debate.” But as an American living abroad I knew it was possible to register to vote, and I do it now for Switzerland (living in the USA, voting in Switzerland). So I strongly disagreed with the OP that it’s **ridiculous** to vote when not living inside the borders of your homeland. I personally think it’s the mark of a good citizen, and should be encouraged, not mocked. * * * La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit. H. de Livry