# absolute truth **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689 "2002-12-30T16:05:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![High\_Deity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@High\_Deity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Deity)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/1 "2002-12-30T16:05:34Z")
Short and sweet: Is there anything in nature (excluding religion and scientific models) that is absolutely true and will always be absolutely true? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/2 "2002-12-30T16:13:12Z")
Everything dies. ---
**Author:** ![High\_Deity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9a140/32.png) [@High\_Deity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/High_Deity)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/3 "2002-12-30T16:29:23Z")
rocks don’t. and the is no telling if or if not advancements made in the science can nullify that in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/4 "2002-12-30T16:32:47Z")
Rocks don’t die because they were never alive. I think what Ethilrist meant, is that everything that lives, dies. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/5 "2002-12-30T16:35:32Z")
I think therefore I am. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/6 "2002-12-30T16:37:29Z")
Whoops…guess I should properly attribute my quote: “I think therefore I am.” _~Rene Descartes_ ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/7 "2002-12-30T20:54:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by High Deity \* > \*\*rocks don’t. and the is no telling if or if not advancements made in the science can nullify that in the future. \*\* Whenever energy is used for work, a small part of it is lost as heat, and is never available again. There is a finite amount of energy in the universe. Ergo, eventually no energy will be available to do useful work. IOW, everything dies. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/8 "2002-12-30T21:51:06Z")
I think that the universe will always exist in some form, perhaps just a thin, boring, energy-less gruel of space-time. Actually, there’s a question: When all the potential energy of the universe is used up, does space-time still exist? ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/9 "2002-12-30T21:57:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*I think that the universe will always exist in some form, perhaps just a thin, boring, energy-less gruel of space-time. Actually, there’s a question: When all the potential energy of the universe is used up, does space-time still exist? \*\* This question merits its own thread over in GQ. The answer may be very complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/10 "2002-12-30T22:14:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by High Deity \* > \*\*Short and sweet: > > Is there anything in nature (excluding religion and scientific models) that is absolutely true and will always be absolutely true? \*\* If you accept, as Kant did, that mathematics and logic are synthetic and therefore from nature (based on spatial interpretations), then yes, tautologies are absolutely true. Of course, some people will argue that tautologies are analytic. So, your call. ---
**Author:** ![TBone2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@TBone2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBone2)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/11 "2002-12-31T00:25:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by High Deity \* > \*\*Short and sweet: > > Is there anything in nature (excluding religion and scientific models) that is absolutely true and will always be absolutely true? \*\* 1. The f\*\*king IRS will hound you 'til you’re dead. 2. The fat woman in front of you in the “12 items or less” line will have at least 30 items, and she’ll pay with a check. 3. Male dogs will lick their balls. (Because they can…) 4. The more room you have, the more stuff you’ll collect (G. Carlin). 5. There will always be someone somewhere seeking “absolute truth.” 😃 My SO (the luscious redhead) and I agree – if “absolute truth” and “reality” can be equated, at least for the sake of this discussion, then there is no such thing, since either concept is necessarily a function of perception. We can attempt to move the discussion beyond humanity, but that puts us squarely into the “religion and scientific models” you wish to exclude. Take away those things – and others like them – and you’re saddled with human perception, period. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/12 "2002-12-31T01:36:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\*I think therefore I am. \*\* Actually, it’s “I think, therefore you are.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/13 "2002-12-31T01:38:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*This question merits its own thread over in GQ. The answer may be very complicated. \*\* Not a bad idea: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153522](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153522) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/14 "2002-12-31T01:40:42Z")
I was under the impression this thread was going to be about vodka? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/15 "2002-12-31T01:42:40Z")
That would be absolut truth. Now I’m stuck pondering what the ad for this would look like. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/16 "2002-12-31T02:11:38Z")
I thought the absolute truth was “and this too, shall pass.” One could say that’s another way of “time always moves forward,” though I’ve encountered philosophers (and historians!) who believe that time is circular. ---
**Author:** ![Ramanujan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Ramanujan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramanujan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/17 "2002-12-31T05:59:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > Whenever energy is used for work, a small part of it is lost as heat, and is never available again. There is a finite amount of energy in the universe. Ergo, eventually no energy will be available to do useful work. > > IOW, everything dies. is heat energy not energy? why is it that it at some point won’t be available? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/18 "2002-12-31T07:28:35Z")
Whack-a-Mole said: > [@](#): > > I think therefore I am. Rocks don’t think, but they am…😃 ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/19 "2002-12-31T16:52:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Whack-a-Mole said: > > > [@](#): > > > > I think therefore I am > > Rocks don’t think, but they am…😃 \*\* Which is entirely consistent with Newton’s famous implication. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Ramanujan_ > **is heat energy not energy? why is it that it at some point won’t be available?** Go ask that in **Revtim** ’s thread. The answer isn’t terribly simple, and I don’t completely understand it myself. ---
**Author:** ![Shad0wBatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Shad0wBatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shad0wBatt)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689/20 "2002-12-31T17:35:32Z")
I think the only “absolute truth” is the _concept_ of absolute truth. We can imagine the idea of “absolute truth” and what that means, but can only use that as a type of measurement for other things in life; for example, how close something may come or how far it may be from absolute truth. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/absolute-truth/145689.md?page=2)